TBone - 2016-06-09 9:09 AM That is FANTASTIC.  How many pounds do you feed per feeding and how long does it take her to finish them?



Again, would love to find a study on this feeding protocol.  



http://www.equinews.com/article/long-stem-vs-short-stem-forages[/qu...
Hi guys - a few thoughts with this  .... while alfalfa has been ancedotally linked and carries a high amount of calcium to buffer the stomach, there is very little scientific evidence proving that it prevents ulcers without the aid of a product like rantidine (or similar).  Link to article where they studied alfalfa in working horses and showed that it helped reduce the severity of the ulcers, but didn't heal or cure them:  http://www.cabi.org/cabdirect/FullTextPDF/2008/20083097780.pdf  .  

Also, EPM is a protozoan, and won't be affected by feeding alfalfa (or not).  I'm happy your horse is doing so well, rachellyn80, we all can relate to only wanting the best for our equines.

Ok - so long stem and short stem forages, in general refers to how the forage is processed.  Since cubed hay is ground where you can still see stems, it is considered long stem forage.  Pellets are considered short stem in the equine world because they are processed and pelleted.  So the basic process is to grind hay to super fine, make a mush out of it, and then run it through a pelleter.   Make sense?  

However, in response to your question looking for a peer reviewed journal article "study" .... Here ya go. Yes this was in Sweeden, because you cannot find indpendent funding for behavior and feed studies in the US, our major funding sources revolve around viruses, bacteria, and other pathogens. It is still sound science and an interesting article to read.  

Long-stemmed vs. cut haylage in bales—Effects on fermentation, aerobic storage stability, equine eating behaviour and characteristics of equine faeces; Cecilia E. Müller,  Animal Feed Science and Technology Volume 152, Issues 3–4, 6 August 2009, Pages 307–321
LINK - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0377840109001412

Excerpt from the abstract - "In general, information on how different types of forages and forage treatments during harvest affect eating behaviour and digestion in horses is scarce in the published literature. A combined ensiling and feeding experiment was therefore conducted with the aim to compare fermentation and aerobic storage stability in cut and long-stemmed haylage bales, as well as effects of feeding cut and long-stemmed haylage on equine eating behaviour and on faecal characteristics (i.e. particle size distribution and chemical composition)."

Happy reading and have a great day! 

Tdove:
To classicpotato, I am glad you found a product that best meets your needs and feeding preferences. I am sorry that you found twine in the cubes. Hayrite does not use field cubers. This is just the truth. My dad used to run field cubers. They don't make them anymore and they were not very good machines. Just the fact that Hayrite uses bentonite as a binder proves they are not using a field cuber. Also, you cannot mix in 10% oat hay with a field cuber either. They are cutting and drying the hay and transporting it to the same stationary cubing machine and facility that all cubing manufacturers are using. Hayrite is a good cube. I used to feed them before we decided to start our own company. I was unhappy with them for various reasons, one of which I had a horse break a tooth off with handfuls of rocks in every cube feeding. I assume they fixed that issue, as we will do the same with any twine in our cubes. Thank you for trying them and I respect and value your feedback.

rodeomom3 - 2016-06-09 6:57 AM

 Question for TDove: on a previous thread you stated eating cubes is better for their teeth/chewing/digestion than baled alfalfa.  Why??

NJJ - 2016-06-07 12:51 PM Maybe their method is patented and would be none of your business....... 

Three 4 Luck - 2016-06-09 11:26 AM  Just a note about the EPM thing. If the horse is eating clean feed with no protozoan contamination, that would make a difference.  God knows what pees on my stacked hay...

TBone - 2016-06-09 9:09 AM That is FANTASTIC.  How many pounds do you feed per feeding and how long does it take her to finish them?



Again, would love to find a study on this feeding protocol.  



http://www.equinews.com/article/long-stem-vs-short-stem-forages[/qu...
 She gets 20# a day, split between two feedings now that I'm competing on her. 

It takes my horses several hours to clean theirs up from each feeding. They "graze" on it rather than wolfing it down like they did concentrates...even in stalls. The eat a while and then hang out a while. They've never been more satisfied or consistent in their behavior. 

lindseylou2290 - 2016-06-09 11:04 AM


I'm well aware of what EPM is, lol. What I was referring to was the fact that not only do I not have the digestive upsets that we've always had when feeding concentrates, but miraculously we haven't had our usual twice yearly EPM type flare up.

I wasn't putting alfalfa up as a cure all...I was sharing that the change in diet has ultimately given me much healthier horses all the way around. I'm sorry I didn't explain it better.

Tdove - 2016-06-09 11:46 AM Teeth: I have been told by equine dentist that eating cubes helps keep teeth in better shape longer than baled hay. The reason for this is supposedly due to the way horses eat cubes. They break of the ends of the cubes with their front teeth, similarly to how they eat grass in a pasture environment. Secondly, because the hay is in smaller pieces they then have to chew the chopped hay in cubes more and this creates better, more even wear than baled hay. Chewing/Digestion: As stated above, it is my experience and many others that cubes take longer to eat than comparable quantities of baled hay. This creates more acid buffering saliva and breaks down the already broken down chopped hay. It also more closely mimics natural grazing, by smaller, more steady consumption into the digestive system. That is the first part of the digestion answer, the second is that to increase digestibility particle size needs to increase (higher surface area) and passage through the digestive system needs to decrease in order to allow the fermentation process to become more efficient at extracting both calories and nutrients form forage. Because surface area is increased in cubes (smaller chopped pieces and more thorough mastication), cubes are more digestible than baled hay. It is been my experience that cubes are approximately 25% more digestible than comparative type and quality of baled hay. This allows you to feed less, basically.

Bear - 2016-06-09 6:48 AM I haven't used cubes but have considered it. I'm trying to learn something from this thread and it sounds a lot like one of those threads where people debate which pickup is superior. We have Omnis, Hay Rite, Mustang Sally (my favorite because I like the song), Bryant, Danco, and Standlee. Have I missed any? Like so many other threads, I'm always asking myself who, among the posters, is a seller or dealer. To my way of thinking, it sounds like there isn't a heck of a lot of difference between most of these, assuming the assays on the tags are correct. Assuming my horses would probably eat them all, the only other things to consider is availability and cost. I haven't learned much about cost from this.

rachellyn80 - 2016-06-10 5:55 AM  If there's one thing that I learned last year, it's that most of our vets no absolutely nothing at all that's useful about nutrition. Many of the vet schools also receive large donations from the big feed companies. Unless their primary focus is equine nutrition it's like going to your general practitioner to find out what you should be eating yourself....in general, they'll have an idea, but that's about it. 

Bear - 2016-06-09 8:48 AM

I haven't used cubes but have considered it. I'm trying to learn something from this thread and it sounds a lot like one of those threads where people debate which pickup is superior. We have Omnis, Hay Rite, Mustang Sally (my favorite because I like the song), Bryant, Danco, and Standlee. Have I missed any? Like so many other threads, I'm always asking myself who, among the posters, is a seller or dealer.

To my way of thinking, it sounds like there isn't a heck of a lot of difference between most of these, assuming the assays on the tags are correct. Assuming my horses would probably eat them all, the only other things to consider is availability and cost. I haven't learned much about cost from this.

rachellyn80 - 2016-06-10 5:55 AM  If there's one thing that I learned last year, it's that most of our vets no absolutely nothing at all that's useful about nutrition. Many of the vet schools also receive large donations from the big feed companies. Unless their primary focus is equine nutrition it's like going to your general practitioner to find out what you should be eating yourself....in general, they'll have an idea, but that's about it.