RockinGR - 2016-10-28 3:55 PM


I was asked this in a private message, so I'm copying most of my answer to here...

I am mostly a Purina program, and I also feed a little Renew Gold and Standlee Alfalfa pellets. I used to sell Purina, and had the opportunity a couple of times to go tour their facilities and even got to observe some feed and palatability trials at the research facility. My husband and I are both AnSci and nutritionists--we both have worked for small private mills as nutritionists and formulators, and the protocols Purina uses are second to none, and miles above USDA regulations. My vet has a Masters in Equine Nutrition (in addition to her DVM and a couple other degrees) and uses Purina programs as well, for the same reasons I do.
They are a 100% horse only facility, and they do a battalion of tests throughout the entire process. Ingredients are all tested on the trucks before they are allowed to unload. And tested repeatedly throughout the manufacturing process for a multitude of things. Testing is done by PhD's and their staff with food grade equipment (not the standard milling equipment).
I often hear mis-informed people bash them about having a "secret" formulation and that it is not a locked formula. This is true, but it doesn't make it bad. Their formulas are all copyright protected and to put them out to the public would be a terrible business decision. Companies, such as Nutrena, are already constantly trying to copy their products, why would they give them the recipe? And, no, they are not a locked formula because it's a fact that ingredients vary in their analysis. They are allowed "wiggle room" in their formulations to make sure that they meet the tag (which is law, enforced by the USDA through random inspection/bag probes). The actual formulations vary VERY little, but allows them to adjust the formula--say adding additional protein to raise a lowered protein of drought stressed oats, for example. Or to add additional mineral for other deficient ingredients.

No company will ever be free of claims of tainted feed, Purina included. Purina does have the lowest percentage of incidents in the industry due to their standards. But the reason that feed companies do not step up and say it was their feed, here's the money for your horse...is because it would open them up to unlimited liability that is potentially misplaced. Often times tainted feed actually happens due to poor handling by either transport companies or the actual retailer. There are regulations that state there are supposed to be physical barriers or 25ft distance between all horse feed products and any and all medicated feeds. There is also supposed to be a physical barrier or 25ft distance between dog/cat food and cattle/pig feed. All to prevent cross contamination. Very few facilities can physically do that-and as a result, often times single ingredients--bagged oats, corn, etc.--are used that physical barrier, opening those products up to contamination. Most get a weekly route truck from their prospective suppliers that includes all classes of feeds. Or, many retailers get caught up in trying to buy more product than they can rotate because of "truck load discounts" or similar. Then they don't rotate properly, it gets left in a hot, humid warehouse ("but it stayed dry") and the feeds can get rancid or moldy before it gets to the end customer. That's why they insist on doing testing before they just jump up and "pay for someone's horse" like everyone is all up in arms about.
I do believe that it's a real possibility that Nutrena is facing a contamination issue in this instance, but I'll wait until the testing is done. They have had problems in the past and they do not self impose the same regulations that Purina does. They also do not employ the same number of veterinarians and PhD researchers that Purina does. They do not conduct the same level of research--but are notorious for trying to piggy back onto Purina research and sell it off as their own. They and a few other companies have been in hot water for doing so.

There are a number of other companies aside from Purina that self impose higher standards. My suggestion to those asking is to do your research and find out who those companies are, and patronize them. Money talks...

streaknpete - 2016-10-28 8:40 PM I have not read the entire thread but apparently it may not have been the feed. In watching video m(as horrific as it was) it looks more like WNV.Be curious as to what autopsy shows. 

BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-29 10:59 AM

Putting rejected trash from human food and ethanol processing is catching up
the milling companies which include soy bean and rice hulls and beet pulp.

AND let's add GMO feeds and hay products ... 3/4 of the world's countries have
outlawed the use of these contaminated genes to be shipped to or grown in their countries and most realize the kill off of bees will be a quick route to world starvation ...... while the USA crooks just keep on pushing all of this crap for huge profits and political donations ..

I don't think anyone read the statement on this bag of feed below the picture ..

DESIGNED TO BE FED TO A WIDE RANGE OF FARM ANIMALS ...

Next thing we will see is big tub of Ramen Noodles with a picture of a horse on them ..

Southtxponygirl - 2016-10-29 11:48 AM Wranger feed is the bottom of the barrel that Nutrena puts out.   

BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-10-29 10:59 AM Putting rejected trash from human food and ethanol processing is catching up the milling companies which include soy bean and rice hulls and beet pulp. AND let's add GMO feeds and hay products ... 3/4 of the world's countries have outlawed the use of these contaminated genes to be shipped to or grown in their countries and most realize the kill off of bees will be a quick route to world starvation ...... while the USA crooks just keep on pushing all of this crap for huge profits and political donations .. I don't think anyone read the statement on this bag of feed below the picture .. DESIGNED TO BE FED TO A WIDE RANGE OF FARM ANIMALS ... Next thing we will see is big tub of Ramen Noodles with a picture of a horse on them ..

okhorselover - 2016-10-29 6:42 PM Just food for thought. First off I am not defending nutrena, but I want to throw something out here for people to think about before they get on the bashing train. Has anyone seen the auptopsy report on the horse that died ? The horse died, which is horrible, but this girl runs on social media & yells, nutrena killed my horse. I read her post on fb. Until a necropsy is done & published for us all to see, no one can say why her horse died. She said on fb she was having one done. I hope she does. I hope she posts the findings. If it was caused by feed then it should be told. But if not a company got bashed for no reason. There could of been another reason for her horse's death. Colic, it is that time of year with season change, some horse's are prone to colic. Anyway I hate it when anyone looses a horse. I for one know that pain to well, but lets find out the real reason why. I had a 3 yr old filly I had bought as a yearling. One evening she started to colic. Long story short we did all we could for her, but I ended up having my vet come out to put her down cause the pain she was in, I wasn't going to allow her to feel that anymore. We did all we could for her. I couldn't understand why a healthy 3 year old who was on a quality diet, drank well would colic to that point. We had an auptospy done & this filly had a hole in her intestine that apparently she was born with. With age that hole grew. She was doomed from day one. Very sad, but atleast I know in my heart I didn't do anything wrong to cause it. So before one jumps on the rumor train, learn the facts.

Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-29 2:36 PM


 You're wrong as usual. Only 2 countries have outlawed the importation/use of GMOs.  A few more don't allow cultivation but that's a protectionist and political positions that has nothing to do with science and these same countries import them all day long.   GMOs are as safe as their non-Gmo counterparts.  20 years of safety studies and a trillion meals served backs this up.  What exactly do you think causes problems?  Why would you be scared of transgenesis but not mutagenesis?   If you don't know what those terms mean, look them up and get back to me.  You might be surprised by what you discover. 

raisinrox - 2016-10-29 9:10 PM Actually there are 26 countruies that ban GMO, I just googled it!! It is only because of the Monsanto propaganda that it is still Ok in the US< There has been tons of research in other countries about how bad GMO is but those people bought by MOnsanto choose to disagree. 

cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-29 9:02 PM Well I will say I fed round up ready alfalfa last fall, winter and spring and it was the worst mistake I have ever made with my horses. I did not know at first it was round up ready and I had already bought it so fed it and hoped since so many people use it I would be ok. I killed two horses and the other 25 horses on the place were sick, a case of peritonitis, and every horse had ulcers. I had to raise an orphan foal and it took me months after taking them off the feed and getting them healthy to get them looking ok again. I had vets, universities and hay people telling me that was not the cause that round up ready hay has no round up in it. Well I had it tested and guess what it did in fact have round up in the hay and my horses ate poison for months and I killed beloved horses and cost myself around $30,000. There is hay setting on the docks and has been for over a year because places like China, Japan and others will no longer allow it in. We have been in contact with many hay producers who they themselves hay stopped growing and using it because the loss of livestock that was going on. It is not safe ! I know this makes some people extremely unhappy but if you think it is so safe eat some everyday and see how long it takes before you are no longer healthy. I try very hard now to feed non gmo products. You should have lived my night mare this year where horses just kept getting sick and everyday I wondered who would die next. I was stupid . I do not trust feed mills any more just too much going on and if the products are in the same mill it is a risk, they need to clean it up or put it right on the bag in big bold letters so owners know the risk is real with the medicated feed contamination.

Three 4 Luck - 2016-10-30 9:19 AM


 I'm very sorry about your horses.  I don't know how RR alfalfa is grown because I'm a row crops person, but what else did you test for?  Could there have been insecticide residue?  Were there other herbicides used?   Did the grower actually follow the label for Roundup applications?  Because the surfactant used in the product WILL cause stomach issues, it's like eating soap.  Glyphosate itself is less toxic than caffeine or vinegar or salt, and does not bioaccumulate.  

As I said, I'm not familiar with hay growing, but in row crops we only use herbicide early season before flowering/fruiting starts. 2 reasons for this:  once the canopy closes the crop has successfully outcompeted weeds, and applications over the top of even tolerant crops will cause reduction in yield.   So months will have gone by between the last application and harvest. The half life of glyphosate is a few days, and it binds to soil very well, so crop residue would be in the ppb range if detectable at all.   So for the grain crops that are RR, I wouldn't hesitate to feed them.  For hay, there should be a preharvest interval on the label that must by law be followed that will ensure any residue left will be at safe levels. Btw, non-RR alfalfa will still have had herbicide used on it. Non-GMO usually means more pesticide used, not less. 

cutnrunqhmt - 2016-10-30 8:16 PM Where I am our hay is not typically sprayed with a pesticide with don't really have those issues. This hay had not been sprayed in two years so this was an residual in the ground and I know a lot of people try to argue that it is in the ground but it is. My hay tested positive for round up and nothing else. We checked for mycotoxins, check nutrients and nitrates all of which were good. We checked for everything we could think of. My horses died of perforated ulcers which is what round up will do. Trust me we looked at every option I could think of. It also caused growth issues in my new born foals and yearlings also a side effect of round up. There is a ton of research you just have to look for releible sources which is the same for the side saying round up is totally safe. I understand farmers want to use it and that is totally their right I just will never trust it again.