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boon
Posts: 4
Location: Starbuck, Mn | My horse was recently diagnoised as a bleeder and I was hoping to get some opinions and clarification from others that run bleeders. My vet told me to start out giving 4cc IV 4 hours out. After reading many posts I see many people give 2 hours out...any suggestions which is better 2 hours or 4 hours?? I also see many say to not feed hay on the trailer, what is the reasoning behind this? This is my first experience with a bleeder so all suggestions and opinions are greatly appriciated! As far as supplements go, I have him currently on AE Detox and EqiPride topdress. I want to do all I can to make my boy feel and run his best!! Thanks!! |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 886
 
Location: Where its cold and hot | My mare gets 6cc 4 hrs out, it's a high dose but she has bled through lasix on the lower doses. She is just starting to run again after a year and a half off. The reasoning behind no hay after you've given the shot is feed does contain moisture and defeats the purpose of giving a diuretic (lasix). I also give electrolytes once she is cooled down after every run. I limit how many races I take her to, along with being picky/choosy about arena conditions/weather. I will not run her in a dusty pen, or indoor arena when it is super humid/hot out. She is also kept in excellent shape. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 733
| This depends on your horse, I started further out and shortened the time. You need to see how long after you give it your horse pees. My horse pees usually 1-1.5 hrs after I give it, I try to give it at least 3hrs out with her. So if at a smaller barrel race I give it 3hrs before the race starts, If going to a rodeo I give it 1.5-1 hr before the rodeo starts (that can get a little tricky depending on traveling times). I know the first year I gave it to my horse it took her forever to pee, but she seems to have it better figured out now. Did you do a trachea wash? Do you know what is causing the bleeding? That will help narrow down the supplement list. My horse bleeds due to allergies so I knew that supplements that help with allergies and inflammation are going to help her more. I have found that Lung Aid works the best for my horse but they are all different. I can also tell a difference if I start giving her too much alfalfa, she does best on grass hay.
Edited by Rope-N-Run 2013-11-28 11:59 AM
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Nothing is set "in stone" when it comes to bleeder treatment parameters. All horses are different. Have you a cause to your horses bleeding? If so start there. Where I'm from its hot and dusty especially in your warm up areas. Try to stay out of the dust at all times. I like your vets starting point from there tweak your program. We wouldn't feed the race horses their full hay rations due to the gut fill. The weight of the hay and water it attracts hitting against the diaphragm can be a cause to the pressure wave spike that puts some horses at risk. Remember alfalfa especially will cause water to come from interstitial spaces to the gut. And some believe the high niacin in the legume may be another reason from the bleeds. If you can have a BAL bronchial - alveoli lavage done so you can rule out infection and allergen causes. It's a helpful start. I had a friend whose Stud was bleeding this summer. She didn't get a BAL but we did treat him with my nebulizer and anti microbial silver. After treating him for two weeks with a three week rest he came back and ran in the middle of the 2-D at the Elite race in Waco. He didn't bleed thru his Lasix and had a quick recovery.
I will always treat mine post bleed with Gentocin, rest and nebulizer treatments. Try BigDweb.com and get on hesperidin with Vitamin C&K. Should the cell wall integrity be fractious this may help. Keep a healthy gut as well as this helps the respiratory tract. You just have to test meds and supplements to see what works for your horse. I run with either a flair strip or the nose clips inserted inside my colts that start running hard. I'm not opposed to running in a figure 8 or a Cornell collar as well. If dusty hay is a cause steam it! Just holler out this forum is great for ideas, but always keep a journal and your vet apprised of what your doing. |
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 Fridayaholic
Posts: 1990
Location: Warsaw, VA | I HAD a Bleeder and heres what I did: mine bled out Oct. 2011.. He is from Canada. My vet was at the race and scoped him. started him on antibiotics. He was already on Animal Element Detox and Product X - for his hocks. I started him on AE's Immune at 2 scps x day for 60 days. Then down to 1scp x2 a day. I did not run him for 45 days, he had down time after he bled/antibiotics and then was ponied from 4wheeler daily. I then had to make a run and did give 3cc's Lasix per vet. Lasix is hard on them and not a curative, I did not want to do this every time to run him. It was in April I ran him and did so without lasix and spurs lol. He actually walked up to the alleyway and waited for me, ran and smoked 3 cans and actually stopped in the alley. He would before hang up on backside of 1st/2nd and blow 3rd, run off, and scare everyone. We were 2nd in the 1D..Main thing is to rest, eliminate irritants, heal and restore the lungs etc.. My vet also said every so often breeze them out about 100 yrds to clear them out. Do not give hay in trailer, feed it on the ground etc., keep areas when in stalls wetted down to keep dust down etc.. Anyhow I have successfully been running him since.. No Issues, cough, bleeding, running off etc. No Lasix, only on Animal Element Detox, Immune, X, Apple Cider Vinegar, Lysine, And glucosomine. |
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Location: WI | I do 4CC IV 4 hours out. I can't go any shorter than that with my mare or she will bleed. Took many trial and errors to figure out what works best for her, i was told all sorts of different dosages and time frames as well. What works for one horse may not work for the next. At one point i was at 6CC 3 hours out and was still having problems, it can be FRUSTRATING.
As far as supplements, I use Oxygen 2X and bleederstop. I will also give her some type of electrolyte paste (especially when it is hot out) prior to her run. I try to avoid multiple runs in one day if possible, luckily most races allow carry-overs. I have not had problems with having to pull hay away from her, but i do pull her water.
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | It's odd all the times out that vets will tell you to give lasix. I finally talked to a vet that's practiced on the racetrack for many years. He was part of a study to find the optimal time to give lasix prior to a race and it's 4 hours out for max effect.
I don't feel that many vets have a good grasp of how to deal with bleeders. Mine will go to someone that has a great reputation and practices on racehorses for all bleeding issues. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1566
Location: WV | Our rodeo mare is a bleeder and my hubby is a vet, every horse is different which makes controlling a bleeder that much harder most important thing is if they do bleed they must be rested and started on antibiotics and also just b/c you don't see them bleed out does not mean they are not bleeding.
I will say we swear by Lung Aid by Choice of Champions we also feed OxyMax & we give Lasix it is 3/4 hrs out when we give it, but once again every horse is different.
Edited by JTGWOLF 2013-11-29 6:33 PM
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | After T-Bo bled my vet tried the herbal route and that did NOT work. I had to draw out of a rodeo right before I ran because he was acting crazy and dangerous-and also not acting his normal self at home. After that, my vet gave me a bottle of lasix and pretty much told me to figure out what worked LOL. I run him on 3cc a minimum of 3 hours out, although I prefer to have 4. Last year I put him on 707 Competition Essentials and ran him a couple of times without lasix. He didn't bleed out but he did cough, which makes me nervous! I ended up going back to lasix. I took him to a track vet a few months ago for his knee and he suggested I keep running him on the lasix because I know it works. His opinion was that I am not running often enough for it to hurt(usually 2-3 times per month). |
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