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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
 
Location: Arkansas | Has anyone ever noticed that at Pro Rodeos the timed events are in tenths except for the barrels? The barrels are in hundredths.. At High School Rodeos they are timed in thousandths.. Even all the roping events! I wonder how they can do that? I know for sure that the PRCA does it in tenths because the events are flagged and they say that there is no way that a flagged event can be completely fair being that humans aren't exactly perfect.. So, if you are in the breakaway and have a 2.155 and second was a 2.167 and third was a 2.188. Same with the other timed events.. There would be a three way tie if it was done correctly because they would all be 2.1..This could change who wins and who loses a championship!! Just the fact that a human is flagging and a human is timing, makes it inconsistant... Not on purpose but, still it can't be exact...The PRCA times in tenths for a reason!! My husband is a judge and this drives him CRAZY!! 
Edited by Ethel 2013-12-09 1:42 AM
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
 
| I've noticed it, but different places have different rules all over the place.
In HS basketball they play quarters, In College they play 1/2s and in pro they play quarters. Make sense...NO, but it's different for each place.
Same applies here. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 407
| I always wondered if the flagger had a bad day of how it would effect their timing. I think it should be just the timer itself and no human error to interfere. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 591
| The barrels are timed down to the hundredths instead of thousandths because when the timer doesn't work they can use the flagged, hand timed back up time and not have to stop the rodeo to try and fix the timer. They make the hundredths number a 0 to even out the human error. If the hand timer reads 17.54, it's a 17.50. So if you see a 3 or 4 way tie with a 17.50 somewhere, the timer was most likely not working! I was told this by a rodeo secretary. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: Arkansas | Nateracer - 2013-12-09 7:22 AM I've noticed it, but different places have different rules all over the place.
In HS basketball they play quarters, In College they play 1/2s and in pro they play quarters. Make sense...NO, but it's different for each place.
Same applies here.
Yes, but those things wouldn't affect the outcome of the game.. The times could affect who wins and who loses just because the thousandths used are more than likely wrong because of the human factor..
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: Arkansas | 3 To Go - 2013-12-09 9:41 AM The barrels are timed down to the hundredths instead of thousandths because when the timer doesn't work they can use the flagged, hand timed back up time and not have to stop the rodeo to try and fix the timer. They make the hundredths number a 0 to even out the human error. If the hand timer reads 17.54, it's a 17.50. So if you see a 3 or 4 way tie with a 17.50 somewhere, the timer was most likely not working! I was told this by a rodeo secretary.
Exactly! That's fine in the barrels.. But, at our High School rodeos here and at the Nationals, they use the electric timers to time instead of a hand held stop watch.. So, all of the roping events and the goat tying times are in thousandths! So, the human error part is not compensated for.. This could and has totally affected the outcome of the year end championships! I have no dog in this hunt but there are kids that might lose out are the ones that it's hurting..Most people don't know this so, they don't even question it.. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1280
Location: Texas | In our local playday finals (where everyone is out to win & will not tolerate any human error LOL) they use 2 electric timers, so that if the main timer malfunctions, the backup timer captures a time. They are set on the same score line, one above the other. Works great. | |
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 Cyber World Challenged
Posts: 2526
Location: My Own Little World | 3 To Go - 2013-12-09 7:41 AM The barrels are timed down to the hundredths instead of thousandths because when the timer doesn't work they can use the flagged, hand timed back up time and not have to stop the rodeo to try and fix the timer. They make the hundredths number a 0 to even out the human error. If the hand timer reads 17.54, it's a 17.50. So if you see a 3 or 4 way tie with a 17.50 somewhere, the timer was most likely not working! I was told this by a rodeo secretary.
I always wondered why they don't go to the tousandth on the times. Although, as another poster said. at big races, we use one timer right on top of another as a back up. Never had any issues with that not working | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: Arkansas | tracies - 2013-12-09 2:17 PM
In our local playday finals (where everyone is out to win & will not tolerate any human error LOL) they use 2 electric timers, so that if the main timer malfunctions, the backup timer captures a time. They are set on the same score line, one above the other. Works great.
You guys are not understanding what I'm saying.. In the roping events you can NOT use an electric eye. There is no line to run across to start and stop your time, so there has to be a flagman! That means there has to be a human timer with a stop watch!! How can you give a kid a time that is in the thousandths when you have to deal with the reaction time of two humans??? You can't blink in a thousandths of a second so how can a flagger and a timer be sure they are exactly the same in reaction time on every contestant?? THEY CAN'T! That's why the PRCA times the roping and bull dogging in tenths.. That is why you will see maybe 3, 4.2's in the team roping.. they are smart and do that so they can compensate for the human factor.. The kids deserve the same! Same with goat tying, bull dogging etc.. I'm not talking about the barrel racing.. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Missouri | I just looked on the HS website and it looks like they go to hundredths not thousandths in the roping event, ie 7.25 they go to thousandths 15.235 in barrels and poles.
Not sure what your state is doing, I have seen some timers use the electric eye timer console deal and hit the start/stop button manually instead of using the handheld stop watch. But they are still relying on the field flaggers to start and stop in all the timed events except for barrels and poles.
Hope all that was clear as mud. Lol | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1062
Location: Probably On the Road to the Next Barrel Race! | Okaaaaayyyyy.... I think I've got what you are saying, but you probably won't like my answer. You are right, there IS human error involved. And since that is an unavoidable fact, my question to you is... What makes you think those times are accurate when timed even to the hundredth... Or, even a tenth? Honestly, a tenth of a second is VERY fast, certainly two different judges with all their "humanness", could cause a time to be timed one tenth differently. So, if a human judge cannot really, IMHO, be accurate to even a tenth, what difference does it make if it is timed in hundredths or thousandths? | |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Can you imagine the pressure of being a timer at the NFR?? Holy crap I get anxious just thinking about it, | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 407
| I can understand them using a flagger in the roping events but in the barrel racing they should just use a timer and not a flagger. Use a back up timer like they do in all big barrel races. | |
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 BHW Cheerleader!!
Posts: 6847
Location: Where it is too cold, SD | I've never seen roping events go to the thousandths - I agree should be hundredths for all the various reasons talked about in posts above.
I was told the reasoning for the hundredths in barrels in wpra is because many rodeos are several perfs/slacks that are one go - hard to say you have that electric eye placed in the same exact spot each of those perfs? Also the hand time part should you need to use them in the case of a eye malfunction - | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: Arkansas | CrossCreek - 2013-12-09 8:24 PM Okaaaaayyyyy.... I think I've got what you are saying, but you probably won't like my answer. You are right, there IS human error involved. And since that is an unavoidable fact, my question to you is... What makes you think those times are accurate when timed even to the hundredth... Or, even a tenth? Honestly, a tenth of a second is VERY fast, certainly two different judges with all their "humanness", could cause a time to be timed one tenth differently. So, if a human judge cannot really, IMHO, be accurate to even a tenth, what difference does it make if it is timed in hundredths or thousandths?
Well, just recently, at one of our high school rodeos, there were three girls in the goat tying that were 9.7.. There should have been a three way tie, just like in the bull dogging there may be 3, 4.2's... They round up the times when they are in tenths at the NFR.. Your chances are better to compensate for human error when they round it off than not.. So the three goat tying runs may actually have been 9.72, 9.76 and 9.79. Either way they would all have a 9.7 if rounded off and would have had a tie..This changed the outcome of the placings. When you are getting points,10 points for 1st place, 9 points for 2nd place, 8 points for 3rd place etc., down to 10th place it has a HUGE affect on the standings!! It may come down to just a couple of points who wins the championship, or who gets to go to Nationals! I just looked on the final results at the National Junior High Finals in Gallup, NM. and all of the TIMED events are in thousandths.. For instance Girls Goat Tying Performance 10
1. Jacey Thompson, Whitney, Neb., 8.549;
2. Jacey Johnson, Rosalia, Wash., 9.291;
3. Katelyn Perkins, Dietrich, Idaho, 10.075;
4. Macey Lee, Greenbrier, Ark., 10.218;
5. Lauryn Hoagland, Harpersville, Ala., 10.947;
6. Darcy Taylor, Bryan, Texas, 11.065;
7. Sienna Bruton, Cliff, N.M., 11.147;
8. Makenah Gibson, Las Vegas, Nev., 11.823;
9. Lexie Austin, Floyds Knobs, Ind., 12.074;
10. Makena Burris, Queen Creek, Ariz., 12.455;
11. Kylie Whiteside, Longview, Alberta, Can., 12.457;
12. Prairie Wind Smith, Bluffton, Ga., 12.792;
13. Britta Strain, Davie, Fla., 12.93;
14. Caxton Martin, Alma, Kan., 15.774;
15. Ashley Patterson, South Glens Falls, N.Y., 15.848;
16. TayLour Latham, Neola, Utah, 15.872;
17. Alli Masters, Leon, Iowa, 16.242;
18. Tristyn Williams, Mendota, Ill., 18.531;
19. Emma Jarvis, Salem, Ohio, 19.147;
20. Kyra Lombardo, Marshville, N.C., 20.064;
21. Mikayla Almond, Olin, N.C., 23.866;
22. Opal Harkins, Billings, Mont., 24.74;
23. Shana Froshaug, Minton, Saskatchewan, Can., 25.509;
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Missouri | What does the high school rulebook state? I don't think it clarifies how the time is recorded. So as long as it is consistent within you state it should be ok. But you can't change from one rodeo to the next, it does state in the roping and goat tying that time is taken between to flags. So you have a human starting and stopping the clock.
But most associations either go tenths or hundredths in roping events. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1115
Location: Arkansas | All it says in the high school state rule book is that you have to have a stop watch that goes to the hundreths.. That is all is says. So, if it doesn't clarify that in the state rule book then you refer back to the PRCA or the WPRA.. And in the PRCA rule book it states that all hand flagged events will be recorded in tenths of a second.. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 319
| I wondered how the roping & tie down events were timed. Calf roping, sometimes the cowboy is up & halfway to his horse before the timer stops. SOmetimes it stops quicker. When does the flag drop? Is there more than one judge/timer? | |
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | nance - 2013-12-10 5:50 PM I wondered how the roping & tie down events were timed. Calf roping, sometimes the cowboy is up & halfway to his horse before the timer stops. SOmetimes it stops quicker. When does the flag drop? Is there more than one judge/timer?
Flag is dropped once the tie is over and roper throws his hands in the air. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 319
| hammer_time - 2013-12-10 8:02 PM nance - 2013-12-10 5:50 PM I wondered how the roping & tie down events were timed. Calf roping, sometimes the cowboy is up & halfway to his horse before the timer stops. SOmetimes it stops quicker. When does the flag drop? Is there more than one judge/timer? Flag is dropped once the tie is over and roper throws his hands in the air.
Maybe its a delay in the recording or satelite out of synch, but the timer seems to run on after they throw up their hands. also seems to run on as the horses are running into the alleyway but I know that's not right. | |
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