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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
  
| Morab76 - 2013-12-31 11:55 PM
I'm surprised at the number of folks stating that legging up and getting a horse in shape is a matter of 6 weeks or a few months. You will see improvement in the large muscles and cardiovascular system in that time but it takes at least 6 to 12 months for support tissues (tendons, ligaments, joint capsules, hoof tissues) to have a strengthening response to conditioning, and a minimum of 1 to 2 years for bone tissue to strengthen in response to exercise-induced stress. These time tables have been demonstarted again and again. I use it for planning conditioning of endurance horses, but the part that comes into play the most for barrel racers is the time table for support tissues to gain in strength - especially when you consider how many injuries involve support tissues. And the majority of endurance horses are only ridden two to three times a week - even less at the higher levels due to the systemic conditioning already present and time off betweem competitions for recovery.
I am a firm believer that the more time invested in conditioning, the more time gets added to the career.
My vet disagrees with you, he says 3 months of conditioning 2 miles of riding 5 days a week 2 days off is what a barrel horse should have, this is even horses coming back from broken bones, torn tendons, etc. He also says a horse should have 3 consecutive months off to allow muscles and ligaments time to regenerate and heal.
My analogy is horses are like a car, if you keep driving it, the wear and test will eventually mile it out and the car will be broken. This is why miles out cars are cheap.
I know that many pro barrel racers have said a barrel horse only have so many runs in them, so choose wisely. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
  
Location: Phoenix | CYA Ranch - 2014-01-01 9:14 AM
Morab76 - 2013-12-31 11:55 PM I'm surprised at the number of folks stating that legging up and getting a horse in shape is a matter of 6 weeks or a few months. You will see improvement in the large muscles and cardiovascular system in that time but it takes at least 6 to 12 months for support tissues (tendons, ligaments, joint capsules, hoof tissues) to have a strengthening response to conditioning, and a minimum of 1 to 2 years for bone tissue to strengthen in response to exercise-induced stress. These time tables have been demonstarted again and again. I use it for planning conditioning of endurance horses, but the part that comes into play the most for barrel racers is the time table for support tissues to gain in strength - especially when you consider how many injuries involve support tissues. And the majority of endurance horses are only ridden two to three times a week - even less at the higher levels due to the systemic conditioning already present and time off betweem competitions for recovery.
I am a firm believer that the more time invested in conditioning, the more time gets added to the career.
So what do you suggest for those like myself that live in the frozen tundra and chose to give my horses a few months off during the winter. Are you saying it would take me 6 months to get my horse back in shape? Basically I'd have them ready for another winter rest. 
Was wondering about this as well. So is this break during the winter hindering them? |
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 Love Me Some Robert Redford
Posts: 2335
Location: WV | I am a beginner and no expert at all but here is my thought on this. My mare was off for a summer and I could not ride the following spring because of my back. She had been trail ridden during that time she had off from barrels. I had taken her to a friends place and they wanted to take her threw the barrels. She warmed her up and I agreed that she could do this but told her to take it easy because she was not legged up enough. My mare had no issue with this and done really well. That being said there was another horse there she was doing the same thing with and he was not tolerating it as well and probably had more riding time on him than my mare. I think it depends on the horse and your person preferences. I am sure there are exceptions out there that someone could pull a horse out of pasture and go win and those that might not. I would want mine to be in the shape they needed to be in if I was asking them to work for me at the top of their game. It made me feel bad to ask her to run threw when she wasn't in shape for it. Also, I have been threw the pattern while I was with my daughter doing pee wee and it was a slow trot and it takes some wind. By the third barrel I was wishing I was in better shape. I found out that day I did not have the stamina to trot threw either. |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | hammer_time - 2014-01-01 12:10 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-01 9:14 AM Morab76 - 2013-12-31 11:55 PM I'm surprised at the number of folks stating that legging up and getting a horse in shape is a matter of 6 weeks or a few months. You will see improvement in the large muscles and cardiovascular system in that time but it takes at least 6 to 12 months for support tissues (tendons, ligaments, joint capsules, hoof tissues) to have a strengthening response to conditioning, and a minimum of 1 to 2 years for bone tissue to strengthen in response to exercise-induced stress. These time tables have been demonstarted again and again. I use it for planning conditioning of endurance horses, but the part that comes into play the most for barrel racers is the time table for support tissues to gain in strength - especially when you consider how many injuries involve support tissues. And the majority of endurance horses are only ridden two to three times a week - even less at the higher levels due to the systemic conditioning already present and time off betweem competitions for recovery.
I am a firm believer that the more time invested in conditioning, the more time gets added to the career. So what do you suggest for those like myself that live in the frozen tundra and chose to give my horses a few months off during the winter. Are you saying it would take me 6 months to get my horse back in shape? Basically I'd have them ready for another winter rest. Was wondering about this as well. So is this break during the winter hindering them?
If its hindering me then so be it, is my thought. I think its important to the horse's mind and body to have the time off. Heck its important to my mind and body! LOL
Years ago I'd haul a few times a week to an indoor in town. Its miserable loading, unloading, saddling, unsaddling. I stayed riding this year until first week in December then it got freakishly cold and cruddy. I need to have 3 horses ready for Lincoln mid April. Not sure exactly when I'll need to start getting them ready for that. I will say mine are out in pastures. My mare runs, bucks and plays a number of times per day. My 2 geldings......they're another story. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| CYA Ranch - 2014-01-01 1:02 PM hammer_time - 2014-01-01 12:10 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-01 9:14 AM Morab76 - 2013-12-31 11:55 PM I'm surprised at the number of folks stating that legging up and getting a horse in shape is a matter of 6 weeks or a few months. You will see improvement in the large muscles and cardiovascular system in that time but it takes at least 6 to 12 months for support tissues (tendons, ligaments, joint capsules, hoof tissues) to have a strengthening response to conditioning, and a minimum of 1 to 2 years for bone tissue to strengthen in response to exercise-induced stress. These time tables have been demonstarted again and again. I use it for planning conditioning of endurance horses, but the part that comes into play the most for barrel racers is the time table for support tissues to gain in strength - especially when you consider how many injuries involve support tissues. And the majority of endurance horses are only ridden two to three times a week - even less at the higher levels due to the systemic conditioning already present and time off betweem competitions for recovery.
I am a firm believer that the more time invested in conditioning, the more time gets added to the career. So what do you suggest for those like myself that live in the frozen tundra and chose to give my horses a few months off during the winter. Are you saying it would take me 6 months to get my horse back in shape? Basically I'd have them ready for another winter rest. Was wondering about this as well. So is this break during the winter hindering them?
Years ago I'd haul a few times a week to an indoor in town. Its miserable loading, unloading, saddling, unsaddling. I stayed riding this year until first week in December then it got freakishly cold and cruddy. I need to have 3 horses ready for Lincoln mid April. Not sure exactly when I'll need to start getting them ready for that. I will say mine are out in pastures. My mare runs, bucks and plays a number of times per day. My 2 geldings......they're another story.
As far as taking 6 months to a year to leg back up, when my gelding was out for a year with a torn suspensory, he was in a stall for 2 months with a few minutes of daily, hand walking This progressed to turn out on 10 acres at 4 months and 20 minutes of walking and trotting. At 9 months I got the go ahead to leg him back up and vet gave me a 3 month program of walk 10 minutes, trot 15, lope 15, trot 15 and walk to cool down- 5 times a week. He had lost a lot of his muscle tone. He said in 3 months he will be good to go and that keeping him legged up and a proper warm up before a run
(lots of walking and trotting) were key to him not tearing the suspensory again.
Edited by rodeomom3 2014-01-01 1:15 PM
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | to bring one back from injury yes it does take that long...I completely agree with RM..
to bring one back from rest I believe can be done in shorter time frame.. I worry about their heart and lungs .. I see so many posts about .. soreness and lameness and issues.. if you pull a horse out of pasture and start drilling on them or running you will get that.. just as a athlete would .. I wouldnt say it would take a year to leg one up from Just sitting and rest.. I would however say 2 months of steady training would be in the favor of the horse..and its mind and body..least 3 times a week....This is a healthy horse.. not rehabbing..I think some feel its ok to pasture a horse then grab him for a 3 day weekend of races after being idle for 6 months... well my opinion is its not good.. if you arent a runner sprinter marathoner then one day .. go to a sprint or 5 k.. how do you feel? how does your muscles feel? do you tye up? hows your lungs? cold weather they burn I bet to.can you do it SURE.. is it good for your body.. no..just my opinion. we all have differant ways though i understand that. |
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Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Bibliafarm - 2014-01-01 1:24 PM to bring one back from injury yes it does take that long...I completely agree with RM..
to bring one back from rest I believe can be done in shorter time frame.. I worry about their heart and lungs .. I see so many posts about .. soreness and lameness and issues.. if you pull a horse out of pasture and start drilling on them or running you will get that.. just as a athlete would .. I wouldnt say it would take a year to leg one up from Just sitting and rest.. I would however say 2 months of steady training would be in the favor of the horse..and its mind and body..least 3 times a week....This is a healthy horse.. not rehabbing..I think some feel its ok to pasture a horse then grab him for a 3 day weekend of races after being idle for 6 months... well my opinion is its not good.. if you arent a runner sprinter marathoner then one day .. go to a sprint or 5 k.. how do you feel? how does your muscles feel? do you tye up? hows your lungs? cold weather they burn I bet to.can you do it SURE.. is it good for your body.. no..just my opinion. we all have differant ways though i understand that.
Biblia, I so agree. I don't know if it is an apples to apples comparison, but I know how it effects me when I can't get to the gym. I test in the excellent range when I do a fitness cardio test. When I miss a week or more at the gym because of vacation I sure can tell a difference. It does not take me long to get back where I was, but it is amazing how just 7-10 days causes me to lose cardio. The rest is good for me but I pay for it. I can't imagine what it would feel like with no routine exercise and then being asked to work out at the level I do. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | AsCYA Ranch - 2014-01-01 5:09 PM
run n rate - 2013-12-31 1:14 PM LOL! I have run Pendleton on foot and it SUCKS!!!! I was sucking air by the 2nd barrel and wishing for oxygen half way to the 3rd.
Holy Smokes! Can I ask what in the world would make you do that??? 
I had dreamed of running at Pendleton since I was 9 years old. There was an Ed clinic hosted by the Rice's in Pendleton, thought that would be cool, so when it ended up that we kept the horses on the grounds I was in heaven! Kept walking to the locked gates and looking out there. After the Friday clinic we went and had a few too many margaritas apparently. The next morning it started raining, they decided to do the clinic in the small indoor pen at the round up grounds. I got a wild hair, grabbed the pop up barrels out of the trailer, my hauling buddy was like WTH are you doing??? I'm gonna go run Pendleton I tell her:-) I hopped the gates, went out set up the barrels as close to what I had seen on TV and ran Pendleton on foot at 6am in the rain with a hangover. Somewhere I have a picture of me bent over sucking air, don't think I technically had crossed the timer, I'm flipping my haul buddy off in it because she was yelling "hustle!!!" Lmao!!! I had to go lay down in the truck for about an hour afterwards.
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 Veteran
Posts: 268
| People running their out-of-shape horses is one of my major pet peeves! I feel so badly for the horses. I would never do that. I take a lot of time getting my horses legged up - and keeping them there |
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Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | Running Pendleton on foot made me twice as crazy about conditioning for both myself and my horses. I remember thinking leaving the 3rd " and this is where the crazy b$tch picks up the over and under..." Or I would have thought that had I enough oxygen to my brain to form a thought.
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | run n rate - 2014-01-01 1:50 PM AsCYA Ranch - 2014-01-01 5:09 PM run n rate - 2013-12-31 1:14 PM LOL! I have run Pendleton on foot and it SUCKS!!!! I was sucking air by the 2nd barrel and wishing for oxygen half way to the 3rd. Holy Smokes! Can I ask what in the world would make you do that??? I had dreamed of running at Pendleton since I was 9 years old. There was an Ed clinic hosted by the Rice's in Pendleton, thought that would be cool, so when it ended up that we kept the horses on the grounds I was in heaven! Kept walking to the locked gates and looking out there. After the Friday clinic we went and had a few too many margaritas apparently. The next morning it started raining, they decided to do the clinic in the small indoor pen at the round up grounds. I got a wild hair, grabbed the pop up barrels out of the trailer, my hauling buddy was like WTH are you doing??? I'm gonna go run Pendleton I tell her:- ) I hopped the gates, went out set up the barrels as close to what I had seen on TV and ran Pendleton on foot at 6am in the rain with a hangover. Somewhere I have a picture of me bent over sucking air, don't think I technically had crossed the timer, I'm flipping my haul buddy off in it because she was yelling "hustle!!!" Lmao!!! I had to go lay down in the truck for about an hour afterwards.
Oh Lord that's the best story ever.  |
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 Ms. Manners
Posts: 1820
Location: Oklahoma | CYA Ranch - 2014-01-01 11:14 AM Morab76 - 2013-12-31 11:55 PM I'm surprised at the number of folks stating that legging up and getting a horse in shape is a matter of 6 weeks or a few months. You will see improvement in the large muscles and cardiovascular system in that time but it takes at least 6 to 12 months for support tissues (tendons, ligaments, joint capsules, hoof tissues) to have a strengthening response to conditioning, and a minimum of 1 to 2 years for bone tissue to strengthen in response to exercise-induced stress. These time tables have been demonstarted again and again. I use it for planning conditioning of endurance horses, but the part that comes into play the most for barrel racers is the time table for support tissues to gain in strength - especially when you consider how many injuries involve support tissues. And the majority of endurance horses are only ridden two to three times a week - even less at the higher levels due to the systemic conditioning already present and time off betweem competitions for recovery.
I am a firm believer that the more time invested in conditioning, the more time gets added to the career. So what do you suggest for those like myself that live in the frozen tundra and chose to give my horses a few months off during the winter. Are you saying it would take me 6 months to get my horse back in shape? Basically I'd have them ready for another winter rest.
I am just speaking from endurance experience, but many have that same issue you do. If your horse is in great shape when winter hits, then ride when weather permits through the off season. Once a horse's support structures and bones had gained strength and adjusted to the demands of training and competition, they retain that "memory" far longer than a huan body does. Once temps go up and more consistent conditioning and prep for competition begins, your horse will be back at the high level of conditionin he was at when winter halted consistent riding. Bouncing back after a 4 to 6 month break would take 6 weeks or less.
The timelin for conditioning the different structures is for horse starting from ground zero in terms of conditioning. Many, many serious competitiors take beaks of several months due to weather and a host of other reasons . . . . best thing for the horse is to be out at pasture so he can be brought back to competition shape more efficiently.
When it comes down to it, it is really about knowing your individual horse and what works best for your horse and your expectations. I would be a fool to think all horses respond the same way to exercise and nutrition.
Best indication of fitness is recovery. Know your horse's resting pulse and resps. Keep track of how the horse recovers after a run or training session . . . slower recovery times coul ean one needs to take another look at their conditioning program. |
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 Sexy Bee Yacht
Posts: 5849
Location: WA | rachellyn80 - 2013-12-31 10:24 AM If you're being absolutely honest....How many of you get yourselves fit before asking your horse to haul you around the pattern?
Someone very close to me is the worst about exaggerating how long they are actually exercising their horse...and it's evident when that person couldn't last that long in the saddle to work a horse that long. If you're not fit you aren't doing your horse any favors.
I do. I am very lucky to be a stay at home mom who can go to the gym. I ride 10x better when I am fit and strong. When I get too fluffy, I can't help my horse as much. We run somewhere in the 2D so we aren't the slowest ones out there. We obviously are not the fastest either.
You bring up a very legit point! |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Morab76 - 2014-01-01 9:33 PM CYA Ranch - 2014-01-01 11:14 AM Morab76 - 2013-12-31 11:55 PM I'm surprised at the number of folks stating that legging up and getting a horse in shape is a matter of 6 weeks or a few months. You will see improvement in the large muscles and cardiovascular system in that time but it takes at least 6 to 12 months for support tissues (tendons, ligaments, joint capsules, hoof tissues) to have a strengthening response to conditioning, and a minimum of 1 to 2 years for bone tissue to strengthen in response to exercise-induced stress. These time tables have been demonstarted again and again. I use it for planning conditioning of endurance horses, but the part that comes into play the most for barrel racers is the time table for support tissues to gain in strength - especially when you consider how many injuries involve support tissues. And the majority of endurance horses are only ridden two to three times a week - even less at the higher levels due to the systemic conditioning already present and time off betweem competitions for recovery.
I am a firm believer that the more time invested in conditioning, the more time gets added to the career. So what do you suggest for those like myself that live in the frozen tundra and chose to give my horses a few months off during the winter. Are you saying it would take me 6 months to get my horse back in shape? Basically I'd have them ready for another winter rest.
The timelin for conditioning the different structures is for horse starting from ground zero in terms of conditioning. Many, many serious competitiors take beaks of several months due to weather and a host of other reasons . . . . best thing for the horse is to be out at pasture so he can be brought back to competition shape more efficiently.
When it comes down to it, it is really about knowing your individual horse and what works best for your horse and your expectations. I would be a fool to think all horses respond the same way to exercise and nutrition.
Best indication of fitness is recovery. Know your horse's resting pulse and resps. Keep track of how the horse recovers after a run or training session . . . slower recovery times coul ean one needs to take another look at their conditioning program.
Thank you. One of my dentists and his daughters do endurance races with Arabians. I want to say they travel to California? We always have gab fests about our horses and competing. |
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 Don't Ask Me
Posts: 4077
| i am very blessed to have horses who can be off for 3-4 months and come right out like they never missed a beat and will behave accoridngly--but i dont run then due to not wanting injury-- my horses will run their heart out for me and i know this-- so they dont run until they are fit--
its smarter/cheaper to prevent injury then to pay for and injury afterwards in my book
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Cat Collector
Posts: 1430
| mruggles - 2013-12-31 11:04 AM
I refuse to run any of mine without having them in shape.....mine have been off since oct and I plan on having them ready to go for mid march so to me that means I better be on them jan 1st.......M
this is exactly what i said, some reason my comment was deleted! |
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 Wishing I were a Wildcat
Location: 'Hawk Country | CocoChex - 2014-01-01 1:52 PM People running their out-of-shape horses is one of my major pet peeves! I feel so badly for the horses. I would never do that. I take a lot of time getting my horses legged up - and keeping them there
I agree. It is so selfish!
At a race a couple of weeks ago, a girl said to me "my poor horses, I don't ride them because it is cold but then I bring them here and run them".
I asked, "then why are you here when you know how bad this is for them?"
Her answer "Because I wanted to run."
I had to ride away 
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