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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
  
Location: Arizona | My mustang gelding has been diagnosed with navicular...  because goodness knows it's not possible for me to have a sound horse. Anyway, for corrective shoeing I was thinking of going with either Epona shoes or aluminum shoes with instant soft pad material in them. Any opinions or success with either or? I have used the instant pad material for another mare with moderate success but for a different problem. Any other corrective shoeing techniques that have worked well for you? Also, he is not the type of navicular horse that has long toes and under slung heels, he is the opposite with upright pasterns and grows too much heel. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 278
Location: Whitney, NE | This is interesting to me! How was he diagnosed? We're you able to see boney changes on a radiograph?
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | There were no bony changes on the x-ray which isn't surprising since navicular can be so hard to diagnose and takes so many shapes. We are going to try some corrective shoeing and if positive changes aren't seen then try to get some MRI's to see if we can't pinpoint what is causing him pain, the bursa, DDF, etc. The vet wants to treat it as navicular basically because of his symptoms. No apparent heat, swelling, crackling, of the ligaments/tendons in the lower leg. His lameness has been recurrent over the last 6 months or so, originally thought he had a stone bruise since he is barefoot and we live in a relatively rock area. A week off and he was working sound again. When he is worked regularly 4-5 days per week for 1+ hour he came up lame again. Not wanting to weight the heel, moderate head bob, pointing the toe at rest, short choppy strides etc. Classic navicular signs. | |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
 
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I have used them with limited success. I reommend Sigafoos- glue on- with wide web rocker toe pad. But it is hard to find people with experience with these shoes. | |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Personally I would do the MRI and find out what you are dealing with as opposed to guessing. Being there is no changes to the navicular bone there is something else going on.
Our old ranch horse who we lost a couple years ago was much as you described. He pointed & moved just like a navicular horse. He had absolutely beautiful feet, as in I wished my other horses had as nice of a hoof as he did. And very short upright pasterns. I wish I could tell you what was wrong in his case but as he was my husbands horse he decided to just retire him over spending the money to find the problem & try to treat it. | |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | SaraJean - 2014-01-28 10:13 AM
Personally I would do the MRI and find out what you are dealing with as opposed to guessing. Being there is no changes to the navicular bone there is something else going on.
Our old ranch horse who we lost a couple years ago was much as you described. He pointed & moved just like a navicular horse. He had absolutely beautiful feet, as in I wished my other horses had as nice of a hoof as he did.  And very short upright pasterns. I wish I could tell you what was wrong in his case but as he was my husbands horse he decided to just retire him over spending the money to find the problem & try to treat it.
This is my gelding to a T only he's just 5 years old  . He has beautiful, large, hard feet, with good heel etc only he has short upright pasterns. We want to do an MRI but that is a big expense of time, hauling, and money. If we can't get him any relief we will go that route. He is doing much better now after a few days off and I'm hoping putting shoes on him will help since he is not a high performance horse, trails, and the occasional gymkhana or ranch sorting. | |
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 "Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | I have more navicular experience than I wish I had! If your horse has upright feet like you explained, more than likely he has contracted heels. One thing that is interesting is that there are SOFT TISSUE changes/damage occurring long before there are boney changes. My horse did not show bone changes but DID have soft tissue injury that showed on MRI. Navicular can be a catch all term for heel pain, so many times a horse will be diagnosed as navicular even if there are no changes to the navicular bone, itself. A good barefoot trimmer is the route that I would go. My horse had literally been lame on/off for years. Wedges, pads, glue-on shoes, injections, X-rays, MRIs, etc, etc! Pulled his shoes and and he's been sound ever since! I've had a barefoot trimmer working on him and I do maintenance rasping in between. | |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | annemarea - 2014-01-28 10:38 AM
 I have more navicular experience than I wish I had! If your horse has upright feet like you explained, more than likely he has contracted heels. One thing that is interesting is that there are SOFT TISSUE changes/damage occurring long before there are boney changes. My horse did not show bone changes but DID have soft tissue injury that showed on MRI. Navicular can be a catch all term for heel pain, so many times a horse will be diagnosed as navicular even if there are no changes to the navicular bone, itself.  A good barefoot trimmer is the route that I would go. My horse had literally been lame on/off for years. Wedges, pads, glue-on shoes, injections, X-rays, MRIs, etc, etc! Pulled his shoes and and he's been sound ever since! I've had a barefoot trimmer working on him and I do maintenance rasping in between.
I've seen your posts and your horse looks so much better!  I'm sure it is a soft tissue problem since there are no bony changes. However, his heels are not contracted. My husband is a certified farrier although he only trims/shoes our horses and he has always bragged on how great his feet are. They are nice and wide, his heels grow a little too much so we try to bring them down some but his heels/are definitely not narrow. He has always been barefoot with those hard mustang feet, but we would be willing to bring in a specialist barefoot farrier if necessary if that is what he needs. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2276
Location: ohio-in my own little world with pretty ponies :) | We put egg bar shoes on the front my dead lame navicular gelding | |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | lexyy12 - 2014-01-28 10:51 AM
We put egg bar shoes on the front my dead lame navicular gelding
I hesitate to use egg bar shoes on him because of controversial things I have heard about damage to the heels, plus he does not need raised up anymore. | |
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | MsDuchessGoTe - 2014-01-28 10:06 AM lexyy12 - 2014-01-28 10:51 AM We put egg bar shoes on the front my dead lame navicular gelding I hesitate to use egg bar shoes on him because of controversial things I have heard about damage to the heels, plus he does not need raised up anymore.
Personally I wouldn't go with egg bars either. My first choice when it comes to shoes is natural balance, I've really liked the results I've gotten with them. | |
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Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | SaraJean - 2014-01-28 10:13 AM Personally I would do the MRI and find out what you are dealing with as opposed to guessing. Being there is no changes to the navicular bone there is something else going on.
Our old ranch horse who we lost a couple years ago was much as you described. He pointed & moved just like a navicular horse. He had absolutely beautiful feet, as in I wished my other horses had as nice of a hoof as he did. And very short upright pasterns. I wish I could tell you what was wrong in his case but as he was my husbands horse he decided to just retire him over spending the money to find the problem & try to treat it.
That is always my GO TO as well----MRI from LOTS of experience. And along with what AnneM says too- your husband will likely learn as much by the experience of an MRI as anyone. I have wasted thousands and YEARS trying to grow- wait, stallrest ect only to find out later that we were dealing with secondary issues. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 185
| I don't have any personal experience with navicular (knock on wood/ thank goodness) but my friends reining horse had it. They tried everything under the sun! Corrective shoes, magnetic boots, medication.... and tried nerve blocking too (he wasn't a good candidate for permanent - he didn't improve much with test block). He was put to sleep:(
Looking back on this, after starting to run/ride barefoot and after some reading.... I wonder if pulling his shoes permanently and getting a good natural hoof care trimmer would have help him. It's really the only thing they didn't try. I've heard of some amazing turn arounds! Reining was over but maybe he could have still been rideable/comfortable. Hooves need a good balanced diet too and I really don't know what his was like either. Without shoes its also easier to address heel height issues. You can tackle those heels a little at a time and bring them down over time (if this is what is needed see a professional). Perhapes ones his hooves are better angled and fit better for his natural conformation..he will improve.
Just my thoughts...have heard of horses who where going to be euthanized and as a last resort owners call up a natural hoof care specialist and pulled their shoes...and horse is now happy and healthy. | |
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"Drank the Kool Aid"
Posts: 5496
Location: Iowa, LA | MsDuchessGoTe - 2014-01-28 10:47 AM annemarea - 2014-01-28 10:38 AM I have more navicular experience than I wish I had! If your horse has upright feet like you explained, more than likely he has contracted heels. One thing that is interesting is that there are SOFT TISSUE changes/damage occurring long before there are boney changes. My horse did not show bone changes but DID have soft tissue injury that showed on MRI. Navicular can be a catch all term for heel pain, so many times a horse will be diagnosed as navicular even if there are no changes to the navicular bone, itself. A good barefoot trimmer is the route that I would go. My horse had literally been lame on/off for years. Wedges, pads, glue-on shoes, injections, X-rays, MRIs, etc, etc! Pulled his shoes and and he's been sound ever since! I've had a barefoot trimmer working on him and I do maintenance rasping in between. I've seen your posts and your horse looks so much better! I'm sure it is a soft tissue problem since there are no bony changes. However, his heels are not contracted. My husband is a certified farrier although he only trims/shoes our horses and he has always bragged on how great his feet are. They are nice and wide, his heels grow a little too much so we try to bring them down some but his heels/are definitely not narrow. He has always been barefoot with those hard mustang feet, but we would be willing to bring in a specialist barefoot farrier if necessary if that is what he needs.
If there is nothing obvious from the outside, then I'd spend the money on MRI! Good luck and I hope you get it figured out! | |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | annemarea - 2014-01-28 12:15 PM
MsDuchessGoTe - 2014-01-28 10:47 AM annemarea - 2014-01-28 10:38 AM Â I have more navicular experience than I wish I had! If your horse has upright feet like you explained, more than likely he has contracted heels. One thing that is interesting is that there are SOFT TISSUE changes/damage occurring long before there are boney changes. My horse did not show bone changes but DID have soft tissue injury that showed on MRI. Navicular can be a catch all term for heel pain, so many times a horse will be diagnosed as navicular even if there are no changes to the navicular bone, itself. Â A good barefoot trimmer is the route that I would go. My horse had literally been lame on/off for years. Wedges, pads, glue-on shoes, injections, X-rays, MRIs, etc, etc! Pulled his shoes and and he's been sound ever since! I've had a barefoot trimmer working on him and I do maintenance rasping in between. I've seen your posts and your horse looks so much better! I'm sure it is a soft tissue problem since there are no bony changes. However, his heels are not contracted. My husband is a certified farrier although he only trims/shoes our horses and he has always bragged on how great his feet are. They are nice and wide, his heels grow a little too much so we try to bring them down some but his heels/are definitely not narrow. He has always been barefoot with those hard mustang feet, but we would be willing to bring in a specialist barefoot farrier if necessary if that is what he needs.
Thanks for the opinions guys! I appreciate it. I think we will just go with the aluminum shoes with equi-pak for now to try and relieve his discomfort until an MRI is in the budget. He is doing considerably better today and like I said with light work or no work there is no visible lameness so he will have a comfortable life even if he can't perform at a higher level.
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 Member
Posts: 11
| I have a BLM mustang who was diagnosed with navicular pain as a 6yo. Perfect xrays with text book bony column alignment, no lesions on the navicular bone itself and WIDE spacings between bones from the cannons all the way down. He did test positive to the heal area wth a nerve block test, tho. He would occasionally be off/on sore, but no head bobbing lameness. After trying different therapuetic options, we tried Eponas with GREAT success. He stayed in them for almost a year before going barefoot again. When we eventually got him back to being barefoot, the farrier limited his sole trimming and I put Phoenix on a low starch diet. He was not foundered by any means, but in hind site now, I believe he had become mildly laminitic. All of this was also following Vetalog use for allergies and then more steroid due to snakebite.
This past summer, I had Phoenix out in NM while I was working, and he did develop laminits again but this time it was due to too much alfalfa (no more alfalfa afterwards). Xrays this time revealed minor rotation. Soreness was resolved with 4 days of bute followed by 3 days of no NSAIDs before being seen by the vet. He pretty much presented as sound, but given what we had just gone thru, I wanted xrays. This time Phoenix was not barefoot and was just plain keg shod with steel rim shoes. We opted to keep him in them for a couple months and it kept him sound to ride on soft ground, but if he stepped on a rock he would move off of it real fast. Because of this, I thought he would benefit from something covering more of his foot. I was dead wrong. Shoeing with the Epona shoe created just enough pressure to make his feet sore again. This time, I just plain pulled the shoes and left him barefoot for the remainder of his time in NM. He was back to sound after a month and ready to make the haul home to SC.
IMO, I would go back and look at your horse's diet and adjust that for 3 months before spending the money on an MRI. Mustangs are different from the racebreds and even tho you might not have one that exhibits EMS, the diet could still be your culprit because these horses were bred to essentially live off "trash". | |
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I'll Be Your Huckleberry
Posts: 1488
Location: Arizona | luvmyphoenix - 2014-01-28 2:33 PM
 I have a BLM mustang who was diagnosed with navicular pain as a 6yo.  Perfect xrays with text book bony column alignment, no lesions on the navicular bone itself and WIDE spacings between bones from the cannons all the way down.  He did test positive to the heal area wth a nerve block test, tho.  He would occasionally be off/on sore, but no head bobbing lameness.  After trying different therapuetic options, we tried Eponas with GREAT success.  He stayed in them for almost a year before going barefoot again.  When we eventually got him back to being barefoot, the farrier limited his sole trimming and I put Phoenix on a low starch diet.  He was not foundered by any means, but in hind site now, I believe he had become mildly laminitic.  All of this was also following Vetalog use for allergies and then more steroid due to snakebite.
This past summer, I had Phoenix out in NM while I was working, and he did develop laminits again but this time it was due to too much alfalfa (no more alfalfa afterwards). Â Xrays this time revealed minor rotation. Â Soreness was resolved with 4 days of bute followed by 3 days of no NSAIDs before being seen by the vet. Â He pretty much presented as sound, but given what we had just gone thru, I wanted xrays. Â This time Phoenix was not barefoot and was just plain keg shod with steel rim shoes. Â We opted to keep him in them for a couple months and it kept him sound to ride on soft ground, but if he stepped on a rock he would move off of it real fast. Â Because of this, I thought he would benefit from something covering more of his foot. Â I was dead wrong. Â Shoeing with the Epona shoe created just enough pressure to make his feet sore again. Â This time, I just plain pulled the shoes and left him barefoot for the remainder of his time in NM. Â He was back to sound after a month and ready to make the haul home to SC.
IMO, I would go back and look at your horse's diet and adjust that for 3 months before spending the money on an MRI. Â Mustangs are different from the racebreds and even tho you might not have one that exhibits EMS, the diet could still be your culprit because these horses were bred to essentially live off "trash". Â
Thank you! that is good to know that you had success with the Epona shoes, if the equi-pak does not help we will give those a try. My mustang is not your typical fat squatty horse. He is much taller and leaner than most. That being said we don't feed any of our horses much alfalfa. They are fed a 50%50% pellet, beet pulp, and rice bran. He has no signs of laminitis, red in the white line etc. If he got no alfalfa he would be too skinny. | |
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