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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1028
 
| Ok, for starters, I've never had a horse with EPM (aside from the normal bump or cut, I've had really healthy happy horses), so this one may be my first. Okso the background (sorry if this is a novel): so I picked up my futurity hopeful from the trainer this weekend, and she told me that she suspects he has EPM. He has had trouble keeping weight on, despite being treated for ulcers, teeth floated, and dewormed regularly. His hair is dull (granted, he wasn't blanketed this winter, so still a bit fuzzy) and every once in awhile, he'll really fight her turning to the left. Because of this, one day she bitted him up in a round pen and she says he'd turn about 3 circles then lay down. At first, she just thought he was being "pea hearted", so she'd get him back up, but same thing would happen. Despite all of this, he can slide stop, do flying lead changes, back up well, and has been exhibitioning in the 3D at big races. We did the tail pull test on him, and he didn't resist at all and crossed over in his hind end.
Okay, now the real question. My regular vet is out of town for the rest of the week. He knows this horse and his history and he is one of the few I'm comfortable with working on my horses. Should I start him on a treatment of Oroquin 10 (or another treatment) now, or wait until vet can come out and test him? Is there anything else that this could be? Any and all advice is welcome, as I don't know a whole lot about EPM, just the basics of testing and treatment. This guy is my baby and I'll do anything to make him better :(
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
   
Location: Florida.. | so he is bitted up and lays down after going 3 circles in a round pen and that is why epm is suspected? no other symptoms.. other then coat.. but you said he has winter fuzzies..
most will tell you treat him.. I think something else might be going on..
alot of EPM tests will come back positive
id have a vet exam.. look at pain somewhere as well. he was at a trainers so I assume worked regularly so he may be sore in hind end to..
edit to add...
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-17 1:15 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| if you have the money to treat, then do it. It won't hurt him if he doesn't have EPM and if he does hopefully you have got it fast enough before serious damage has happened. I got a spinal tape and tested the CSF on mine. He, however, had (still has) visible muscle atrophy, dragging hind legs, tripping going up and down hill, and hind end would go completely out from under him when asked to move out quickly. We compared that to his Blood work and the vets made a determination based off the two. He has "active" EPM.
Edited by FlyingJT 2014-03-17 1:25 PM
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | Not saying your horse does not have EPM, but I did the tail pull test on mine.. he let me pull him in a circle without pulling back. I was crushed cause I just knew he was going to have EPM... took him to the vet, turns out he was just SO SORE that he didn't fight me. Injected his hocks, and whirl bones and a week later back to normal. Maybe your horse is just sore also and is actually tought and gritty enough to still "work" through it. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Bibliafarm - 2014-03-17 1:12 PM
so he is bitted up and lays down after going 3 circles in a round pen and that is why epm is suspected? no other symptoms.. other then coat.. but you said he has winter fuzzies..
most will tell you treat him.. I think something else might be going on..
alot of tests will come back positive
id have a vet exam.. look at pain somewhere as well.Â
I agree with you... EPM seems to be becoming the "catch all" disease. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1028
| Well, he also drags his back feet, but I've only noticed it when he's in the pasture (he's pretty lazy). When I lead him in a straight line at a walk and someone pulls on his tail, he'll cross over his hind legs and lose his balance a bit. Like I said previously, I've always great luck (knock on wood) with the health of my horses, so when my trainer mentioned this to me, I was just taking her word for it because she's had 4 with it before in the past. I don't even think I've seen a horse with EPM before in person, so I am a rookie when it comes to diagnosing it. My vet did say that a lot of the horses he tests for it will come back positive. I'm just not sure what else could be wrong with him.
Edited by bowersk 2014-03-17 1:19 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| bowersk - 2014-03-17 1:17 PM
Well, he also drags his back feet, but I've only noticed it when he's in the pasture (he's pretty lazy). When I lead him in a straight line at a walk and someone pulls on his tail, he'll cross over his hind legs and lose his balance a bit. Like I said previously, I've always great luck (knock on wood) with the health of my horses, so when my trainer mentioned this to me, I was just taking her word for it because she's had 4 with it before in the past. I don't even think I've seen a horse with EPM before in person, so I am a rookie when it comes to diagnosing it. My vet did say that a lot of the horses he tests for it will come back positive. I'm just not sure what else could be wrong with him.
I edited my post above with some more info on my experience. unfortunately the tests for epm can produce false positives, both the blood and CSF. The CSF, sorry - cerebrospinal fluid, is a little more accurate than the blood serum test. I got both done. Like I said before, treating them for it doesn't hurt them if they don't have it and after it destroying one gelding of mine I will treat if I suspect, luckily I haven't had any others. I didn't base my decision off of just things like, not picking up the correct lead, weight, coat, etc. Maybe I should have and I would have gotten it sooner but mine was severe and went form no signs to full in about 3 months. | |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | bowersk - 2014-03-17 2:17 PM Well, he also drags his back feet, but I've only noticed it when he's in the pasture (he's pretty lazy). When I lead him in a straight line at a walk and someone pulls on his tail, he'll cross over his hind legs and lose his balance a bit. Like I said previously, I've always great luck (knock on wood) with the health of my horses, so when my trainer mentioned this to me, I was just taking her word for it because she's had 4 with it before in the past. I don't even think I've seen a horse with EPM before in person, so I am a rookie when it comes to diagnosing it. My vet did say that a lot of the horses he tests for it will come back positive. I'm just not sure what else could be wrong with him. Im not being rude or disrespectful but your trainer has had 4 with epm ? do you think maybe it was just a hunch on her part? so she said it was? anything is possible but id have a vet do a lameness exam and xrays as well.. stifles, hocks could be sore to..good luck ..of course alot just treat.. like she said above hers was a active case and had tests and treated..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2014-03-17 1:36 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1028
| Bibliafarm - 2014-03-17 1:34 PM bowersk - 2014-03-17 2:17 PM Well, he also drags his back feet, but I've only noticed it when he's in the pasture (he's pretty lazy). When I lead him in a straight line at a walk and someone pulls on his tail, he'll cross over his hind legs and lose his balance a bit. Like I said previously, I've always great luck (knock on wood) with the health of my horses, so when my trainer mentioned this to me, I was just taking her word for it because she's had 4 with it before in the past. I don't even think I've seen a horse with EPM before in person, so I am a rookie when it comes to diagnosing it. My vet did say that a lot of the horses he tests for it will come back positive. I'm just not sure what else could be wrong with him. Im not being rude or disrespectful but your trainer has had 4 with epm ? do you think maybe it was just a hunch on her part? so she said it was? anything is possible but id have a vet do a lameness exam and xrays as well.. stifles, hocks could be sore to..good luck ..of course alot just treat.. like she said above hers was a active case and had tests and treated..
She has been training for the public (first racehorses, now barrel horses) for about 30 years, so she's seen quite a few horses and she's trained 4 (owned 1 that had to be put down) that had EPM. Yes, I do think because of that, she's a little more apt to jump the gun on EPM. He had a clean lameness exam before I sent him to her 3 months ago. My vet was out to inject my rodeo horse, so I just had him give my colt a once over before he went to the trainer just to be sure. Vet sent me a text a little bit ago that he was to look at the colt's neck and back for soreness before we do anything dramatic. | |
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 Arriving at the last minute!
Posts: 5148
Location: Kansas | There are accupuncture points that will show on fire when EPM flairs up. During stress especially heavy training this can happen and quite common in the midwest. Doesn't mean they are full blown EPM. If the horse were in my barn I would treat the EPM points with my laser and boost the immune system!!! I love Silver and herbs etc. Pau D Arco and Olive Leaf are a few that are supposed to really help the EPM. Make sure the digestive tract is healthy. Many times ulcers, epm, and herpes all go hand in hand. Another test to do is cross his front legs over and see if he stays that way or gets his leg right back under him. There are many other symptoms drooling, head tilt, all over body soreness, etc etc. You can google a long list. It can be managed with out all the hard core drugs IMHO. | |
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