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Expert
Posts: 2685
   
| please give me a list of what YOU want on a colt before starting them on the barrels
I have a 3yo filly that I have not started on the barrels yet that I desperately need to start I'm just not sure if she has all of the buttons she needs (and I'm being lazy as to not put to much on her physically). She is 14.2 #900, I'm 5'4" #105.
here's what she knows:
1. basic leg pressure (directions, shoulders at walk, trot, lope, hind end at stand still, move hip in to pick up correct lead, feet forward and sit = WHOA (lol))
2. break at the poll (very soft in the face, no head raising at bit pressure)
3. flexes (gives to both sides walk, trot, lope)
4. big stop (very attentive to any kind of "slow down" lol)
the only thing I really have trouble with her on is small circles she still wants to lean in and not stand up and pick up her shoulder. shes really clumsy like kill us both if you go from straight line to small circle at a lope if shes not prepared. I think it will come with time its just a touch scary at the moment. I think once she gets the shorten stride, stand up in small circle thing we should be fine. Shes good at it at a trot but not at a lope. I figured we could start the barrels at a walk/ trot and by the time we are loping it she should have the circles down.
just brain storming all of thoughts for the week :)
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| I want all my buttons working.
Shortening lengthening stride at all gaits.
Control of face, shoulder, rib cage, and hip at all gaits.
I want them doing circles at all speeds properly, I also want to be able to move them in and out of the circle with indirect rein.
I want my horses to lope a circle reverse arcing and making the circle small
I want to be able to cue my horses to pick up leads on a straight away | |
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 Very Important Person
Posts: 5682
Location: South MS | 1. all the buttons
2. all the buttons
3. did I mention "all the buttons"?
I want a solid foundation on one long before they ever see the barrel pattern and working with a soft touch
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1034
| cheryl makofka - 2014-06-01 5:48 PM
I want all my buttons working.
Shortening lengthening stride at all gaits.
Control of face, shoulder, rib cage, and hip at all gaits.
I want them doing circles at all speeds properly, I also want to be able to move them in and out of the circle with indirect rein.
I want my horses to lope a circle reverse arcing and making the circle small
I want to be able to cue my horses to pick up leads on a straight away
This. If she's having trouble with your smaller circles, or with shortening her stride, I wouldn't start her yet. I'm a fan of the reiner's big fast/slow small transitions using your seat position rather than bit pressure. It helps them with collection and rate using your seat, without getting in their face.
If she's dropping her shoulder on small circles, she may need more rear propulsion and work on leg cues.
Edited by HorseMommyFiveO 2014-06-01 6:11 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | Don't pattern her yet. She's only 3, you have years and years and years to get her on the pattern. Finish putting a proper foundation on her and you'll be amazed at how much faster the pattern comes to a truly broke horse.
I don't have anybody in my pens that haven't started life as a competitive reiner, hit the roping pen for a year or two, then got patterned. Not everybody has time for that or wants to go that route but my point here is foundation is key no matter what you decide to do (I just go a little further than most).
My good barrel horse spent most of his life as a reiner, then I headed off him for a couple years and when I finally decided to put him on barrels I spent like 2 weeks in the practice pen, exhibitioned him three times, and started entering him and placing very well. He's quiet and relaxed in the alley, fun to haul, used to the noise, and thinks running barrels is the greatest thing ever and we don't have pattern problems that I can't fix with a minor correction because his foundation is there.
ETA: I went back and read your post again more carefully, I would really work on teaching her to drive from behind and really work up in that bridle, it sounds like she can break at the poll but isn't quite sure where her hind end is yet. By working on this off the pattern and putting really good speed control (rate) on her when you hit the pattern you aren't souring her by circling the barrels trying to get her to drive from behind and balance herself.
Edited by redmansmyman11 2014-06-02 11:21 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | cheryl makofka - 2014-06-01 5:48 PM
I want all my buttons working.
Shortening lengthening stride at all gaits.
Control of face, shoulder, rib cage, and hip at all gaits.
I want them doing circles at all speeds properly, I also want to be able to move them in and out of the circle with indirect rein.
I want my horses to lope a circle reverse arcing and making the circle small
I want to be able to cue my horses to pick up leads on a straight away
This! | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I don't start mine on barrels before 4-5 years old because I can't get them broke enough any faster. And I like them to already have the strength and balance under saddle to do it easily. That takes time. | |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | redmansmyman11 - 2014-06-02 9:17 AM
Don't pattern her yet. She's only 3, you have years and years and years to get her on the pattern. Finish putting a proper foundation on her and you'll be amazed at how much faster the pattern comes to a truly broke horse.
I don't have anybody in my pens that haven't started life as a competitive reiner, hit the roping pen for a year or two, then got patterned. Not everybody has time for that or wants to go that route but my point here is foundation is key no matter what you decide to do (I just go a little further than most).
My good barrel horse spent most of his life as a reiner, then I headed off him for a couple years and when I finally decided to put him on barrels I spent like 2 weeks in the practice pen, exhibitioned him three times, and started entering him and placing very well. He's quiet and relaxed in the alley, fun to haul, used to the noise, and thinks running barrels is the greatest thing ever and we don't have pattern problems that I can't fix with a minor correction because his foundation is there.
ETA: I went back and read your post again more carefully, I would really work on teaching her to drive from behind and really work up in that bridle, it sounds like she can break at the poll but isn't quite sure where her hind end is yet. By working on this off the pattern and putting really good speed control (rate) on her when you hit the pattern you aren't souring her by circling the barrels trying to get her to drive from behind and balance herself.
Ditto. Mine was ex-Reiner and was ready to run fast after 30 days with a trainer. I unfortunately blew him up....so I blame his failure on myself. He was fancy broke and it really made me think about how people start colts on the pattern when they are green broke. They are just learning how to handle themselves and carry themselves under saddle and then we are wanting them to turn in small circles and figure THAT out too! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 631
Location: Somewhere in N.C. | Not trying to steal the post, but what are ways to get a horse to drive with their rear end? | |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | she isnt balanced yet is why she does that on small circles .. she isnt strong enough ..
give her time.. build up her balance and strength.. you can evn drive her or we longline them..
large circles only and not always collected up.. let her work over her back as much as possible to.. if you cram her into a small circle and collected up it wont be correct and she will have issues.. | |
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The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | cheryl makofka - 2014-06-01 5:48 PM
I want all my buttons working.
Shortening lengthening stride at all gaits.
Control of face, shoulder, rib cage, and hip at all gaits.
I want them doing circles at all speeds properly, I also want to be able to move them in and out of the circle with indirect rein.
I want my horses to lope a circle reverse arcing and making the circle small
I want to be able to cue my horses to pick up leads on a straight away
Pretty much exactly this. I rode hunters and jumpers for years as a teenager and I STILL like to have all of my same buttons. I put a very English start on my horses, HEAVY on dressage.
Shoulders/hips in or out on a straight line
SOLID flying changes
Circles need to be balanced, collected, and with impulsion from behind - no matter the size.
Stops don't need to be reining-bury-your-butt-NOW, but they must be balanced, square, and sharp.
Lope off on correct lead from a standstill or at least a walk.
Forehand/haunch turns both directions
MUST BE SOFT in the face, willingly breaks at the poll, and works on the bit with maintained light rein contact.
Lateral maneuvers such as two-tracking and side-passing
Basically.... I want to move WHAT I want, WHEN I want, how FAST I want - no questions asked. I want to feel confident in my ability to make a correction mid-run due to (? Circumstances: ground, slip, blown out backside, whatever) and be confident that my horse will willingly, safely, and smoothly follow through. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| svincent - 2014-06-02 7:34 PM
cheryl makofka - 2014-06-01 5:48 PM
I want all my buttons working.
Shortening lengthening stride at all gaits.
Control of face, shoulder, rib cage, and hip at all gaits.
I want them doing circles at all speeds properly, I also want to be able to move them in and out of the circle with indirect rein.
I want my horses to lope a circle reverse arcing and making the circle small
I want to be able to cue my horses to pick up leads on a straight away
Pretty much exactly this. I rode hunters and jumpers for years as a teenager and I STILL like to have all of my same buttons. I put a very English start on my horses, HEAVY on dressage.
Shoulders/hips in or out on a straight line
SOLID flying changes
Circles need to be balanced, collected, and with impulsion from behind - no matter the size.
Stops don't need to be reining-bury-your-butt-NOW, but they must be balanced, square, and sharp.
Lope off on correct lead from a standstill or at least a walk.
Forehand/haunch turns both directions
MUST BE SOFT in the face, willingly breaks at the poll, and works on the bit with maintained light rein contact.
Lateral maneuvers such as two-tracking and side-passing
Basically.... I want to move WHAT I want, WHEN I want, how FAST I want - no questions asked. I want to feel confident in my ability to make a correction mid-run due to (? Circumstances: ground, slip, blown out backside, whatever ) and be confident that my horse will willingly, safely, and smoothly follow through.
I also rode hunters and jumpers (and groomed for an Olympic medalist in dressage for a few months) and am also really heavy on the "move this here when I say when" kind of training before we start patterning or even moving up in speed. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 178
| I think everyone has given really great advice to you. The only thing I would add is to not spend all of your time getting her broke in the ring. Go trail riding, take her over logs, work her on uneven ground. This will help her learn to pick her feet up (and learn to feel different ground conditions). I leg mine up around the fields before doing my slow work. This way, you're teaching her skills and keeping it interesting! | |
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 Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| I start mine on the pattern WALKING from the start. I slow pattern my horses about a million times before I move on to the trot or faster. AND I feel that my leg pressure makes sense to him. Like oh I'm suppose to move AWAY from the barrel.
I once had a mare that I was still teaching the basics to, and a dressage rider commented on how well she was two tracking. (I had no idea what she was talking about) After she explained that it was a higher level dressage movement I told her "HMMM well she needs to do that to get set-up to turn the barrel. That girl ended up buying my "Barrel horse" for dressage... did pretty well too. | |
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