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 Veteran
Posts: 227
 
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | My mare is 7 years old and off the track. Since the day I bought her, we've had troubles with barrels. The first time I ever ran her, we ran to the fence on first barrel and stopped. So last summer I spent trying to figure that out, by the end of the summer she was shouldering first, but she stopped running past it. In the fall I had her teeth done, got her chiroed, treated her for ulcers and spent the whole winter just riding her and working on basics. I brought her back this spring, and she has been doing wonderful. First is still a little iffy, but its 10 times better than it was, and she was making a lot of progress. Her second and third are usually really good, and at the beginning of this spring they were just like normal, she felt fantastic. But the last couple runs I've taken her to she hasn't been working her second and third like normal. Her first is better than it was before, but its still not great. Like I said, this horse just had her teeth done last fall (she's getting them redone tonight actually) She was chiroed in the fall and in the spring, she is still on a daily ulcer supplement and she looks fantastic. She's also on a joint supplement. She has calmed down a TON just in general riding from when I first bought her. When I bought her I was told she just didn't trot. But lately she's been not turning her second quite like she used to, and she's started this neat thing where she blows out of third really bad on the backside. But before I jump to, she's just being naughty or she needs more time off, I want to make sure that its nothing that's hurting her. I have an appointment set up with a vet to get her hocks looked at, but I just wanted some opinions, I know the videos aren't the best quality, but if anyone can tell, do you think she is acting like she needs her hocks done? Or could it just be how im riding her or even just a new habit she picked up? She's only ever done it really bad in the arena in the video where she really blows out of third, so maybe it could even just be something about that arena? But I want to make sure its not that she is hurting before I just assume its just another training issue we need to work on.
At Home: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xq-Vst3pO9M&feature=youtu.be
About 3 weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzOXQJpLHA4&feature=youtu.be
The run where she really didn't turn third and I didn't like how second felt: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WoT2PhDP_U&feature=youtu.be
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 Scorpions R Us
Posts: 9586
  
Location: So. Cali. | For a minute there I thought you were writing about my off the track mare…If its not one thing its another.
First and foremost, if you havn’t had one, get a good vet check/lameness exam done. Not that all off the track horses have an issue, but they’re more likely to have one. Hocks, stifles, SI joint, spurs, etc.
My unprofessional critique of your last video/latest run, first barrel there was no rate, there was no asking for an transition down to collect and turn the barrel. Rate is a huge thing with these free runners, when you do your slow work really over exaggerate sitting back onto your jean pockets, rolling down into your seat, make sure you’re really asking with your body. Work on that at all speeds. Second barrel she cut her pocket in too close, so she didn’t leave herself any room on the backside to get herself together and around the barrel. Make sure you’re asking with your inside leg for her to pick herself up in her ribs and move herself over for that barrel. I noticed on the video at home she’s coming in too close to second barrel as well, again, just my opinion. Maybe try setting up some cones to remind yourself where your pocket is. Third barrel is hard to see in detail, but again I don’t see you asking her to slow down, rate, collect, prepare herself for the turn. Wouldn’t hurt to also go to two hands after second barrel to help both of you set up and prepare for that third turn.
Based off the videos, I do not see it being a hock injection issue, but I would have a good lameness exam done to rule out any pain issues. Otherwise I’m seeing it being a jockey error issue.
We all ride differently at our house than at a race. Its really hard sometimes to remember all those slow work ques we work on and drill at home, during an actual competition run. Again, this is just what I’m seeing from the videos provided, but I personally think you as the rider and jockey just need to help her a bit more coming into those turns.
Edited by Three*C*Champs 2014-06-10 11:51 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| I first have to say that whoever was filming your last run is the sweetest thing ever! It made me smile just listening to her! Definitely agree with above... she's has lots of go and you really got to keep reiterating whoa with her. as far as injections, I personally wait until I absolutely have no other choice. Get to a good lameness vet and ask their opinion. You may look into giving her Legend, or something similar, intravenous first before injecting the joints. | |
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 I'm not opinionated
Posts: 4597
Location: Online | Three*C*Champs - 2014-06-10 10:49 AM For a minute there I thought you were writing about my off the track mare…If its not one thing its another.
First and foremost, if you havn’t had one, get a good vet check/lameness exam done. Not that all off the track horses have an issue, but they’re more likely to have one. Hocks, stifles, SI joint, spurs, etc.
My unprofessional critique of your last video/latest run, first barrel there was no rate, there was no asking for an transition down to collect and turn the barrel. Rate is a huge thing with these free runners, when you do your slow work really over exaggerate sitting back onto your jean pockets, rolling down into your seat, make sure you’re really asking with your body. Work on that at all speeds. Second barrel she cut her pocket in too close, so she didn’t leave herself any room on the backside to get herself together and around the barrel. Make sure you’re asking with your inside leg for her to pick herself up in her ribs and move herself over for that barrel. I noticed on the video at home she’s coming in too close to second barrel as well, again, just my opinion. Maybe try setting up some cones to remind yourself where your pocket is. Third barrel is hard to see in detail, but again I don’t see you asking her to slow down, rate, collect, prepare herself for the turn. Wouldn’t hurt to also go to two hands after second barrel to help both of you set up and prepare for that third turn.
Based off the videos, I do not see it being a hock injection issue, but I would have a good lameness exam done to rule out any pain issues. Otherwise I’m seeing it being a jockey error issue.
We all ride differently at our house than at a race. Its really hard sometimes to remember all those slow work ques we work on and drill at home, during an actual competition run. Again, this is just what I’m seeing from the videos provided, but I personally think you as the rider and jockey just need to help her a bit more coming into those turns.
I agree with this ^^^^^
Just to cover your bases, get her checked out by a vet. But what I see more than anything is not enough rate.
I don't believe in injections, unless it's the absolute last resort. Too many people give them for a quick fix when most of the time just some R & R will fix the issue. Once you start with injections, eventually you will need to do them more and more often. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 713
Location: ND | I would get the vet to check it out.. then get x rays before injecting.... she may just not be able to rate if she is hurting.. My mare has a spur in her hock and she gets injected about every 3-4 months. She was not able to rate because of pain, now she can. Just check all your bases! Good luck! | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 209
| The video of her at home looks nice, you have her controlled and she is rating and turning nicely, the video of her at Oasis isn't too bad either just looks like you might not have totally finished first so in a short time had to move her over for second. As for the last video Rainbow is a bigger arena and she had a lot more time to really run and you had problems getting her to come back and rate. Good idea to have a vet out just to double check but once you start injections you can't really stop and they can get expensive quickly. Adequan can help if there is some minor arthritis issues so that is another thing to consider depending on what the vet says. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Thanks for all the answers!!! Very helpful, I will for sure have her checked out, but I wont ask for any injections unless they say she needs them. I 100% agree that she needs more rate. The problem is that she doesn't so much do that when we run. She does great at home, Ive probably walked 100,000 barrel patterns and trotted and she stops at her rate points without me even having to ask by now. Shes great with going slow. Shell even lope a really nice pattern when were at home and even when we exhibition. But when I actually go to let her run, all rate that we might have had is gone. Shes all run and no whoa. Which I mean, its neat that shes fast and stuff, but turns out turning is kind of important in barrel racing lol. We do a ton of drills and tons of slow work, she just turns off the rate and thinking part of her brain when we run.
Thanks for all of the thoughts! Ill for sure get her checked and then if that's not it, ill just keep working on slow work and collection and rate I guess! And pray for the best! | |
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 pressure dripper
Posts: 8696
Location: the end of the rainbow | Since you asked.... from a few short video clips I see a lot of stiffness in this mare. She is stiff in the face & in the first video at home when she trots off & lopes off she looks really stiff in her body. That said it is also hard to tell a lot about a horse in a few short videos. If it were me I would start with a very thorough lameness evaluation by a top notch performance horse vet. Then once I had fixed the soreness issues that caused that stiffness a would work a whole lot on softening & suppling with this mare. She's pretty & she looks fast, it should be worth your time & money. | |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | willrodeo4food - 2014-06-10 8:59 PM Since you asked.... from a few short video clips I see a lot of stiffness in this mare. She is stiff in the face & in the first video at home when she trots off & lopes off she looks really stiff in her body. That said it is also hard to tell a lot about a horse in a few short videos. If it were me I would start with a very thorough lameness evaluation by a top notch performance horse vet. Then once I had fixed the soreness issues that caused that stiffness a would work a whole lot on softening & suppling with this mare. She's pretty & she looks fast, it should be worth your time & money.
Absolute ditto.
Make sure there isn't pain. Go through everything with the vet.
If there isn't anything there, then I would agree that you need to take a step back and work on softening your mare. Her head is sky high almost the entire run. Get her really good at listening to your seat and legs, and soft to your hands. I'd would take her to some non-barrel racing shows so that she learns to listen to you and it isn't always run-run-run.
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Scorpions R Us
Posts: 9586
Location: So. Cali. | LDH - 2014-06-10 3:35 PM Thanks for all the answers!!! Very helpful, I will for sure have her checked out, but I wont ask for any injections unless they say she needs them. I 100% agree that she needs more rate. The problem is that she doesn't so much do that when we run. She does great at home, Ive probably walked 100,000 barrel patterns and trotted and she stops at her rate points without me even having to ask by now. Shes great with going slow. Shell even lope a really nice pattern when were at home and even when we exhibition. But when I actually go to let her run, all rate that we might have had is gone. Shes all run and no whoa. Which I mean, its neat that shes fast and stuff, but turns out turning is kind of important in barrel racing lol. We do a ton of drills and tons of slow work, she just turns off the rate and thinking part of her brain when we run. Thanks for all of the thoughts! Ill for sure get her checked and then if that's not it, ill just keep working on slow work and collection and rate I guess! And pray for the best!
But remember, YOU still have to ask her for it at a run. Based off the last video you are not asking her to rate down going into first barrel nor third. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Yes, you are 100% right. 90% of our problems are that I'm not quite sure how to ride her....rate really isn't something she likes to do. You can see in the video how high she gets her head. I can ride her around at home and she does fabulous with headset and she's a joy to ride. But when we go to run, we kinda lose that. I totally see what you're saying, I don't ask for really any rate. She's one of those horses that I can watch her and tell what I need to do, but actually doing it and convincing her to do it is not quite as easy. She's little but she's powerful! And when she wants to run, she runs. We had problems with shouldering barrels and knocking, so I get nervous to ask her to rate too soon because im afraid she'll just shoulder her barrel then instead of just sitting down and turning. We obviously have a lot of work to still do, I just don't want to assume its all a training issue and fight with her if she's actually just hurting. We did that all last summer, and then I found out she had ulcers and I got her teeth done and realized she had never had any of that stuff done, and she's like a different horse after doing all that. I know (at least I hope) that she has the potential to make a nice horse. I feel like I just need more control when we are running, she's come a long way since I bought her, so I'm no where near ready to give up on her, but its probably going to be a long haul to get her actually running at that level.
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Scorpions R Us
Posts: 9586
Location: So. Cali. | LDH - 2014-06-11 8:54 AM Yes, you are 100% right. 90% of our problems are that I'm not quite sure how to ride her....rate really isn't something she likes to do. You can see in the video how high she gets her head. I can ride her around at home and she does fabulous with headset and she's a joy to ride. But when we go to run, we kinda lose that. I totally see what you're saying, I don't ask for really any rate. She's one of those horses that I can watch her and tell what I need to do, but actually doing it and convincing her to do it is not quite as easy. She's little but she's powerful! And when she wants to run, she runs. We had problems with shouldering barrels and knocking, so I get nervous to ask her to rate too soon because im afraid she'll just shoulder her barrel then instead of just sitting down and turning. We obviously have a lot of work to still do, I just don't want to assume its all a training issue and fight with her if she's actually just hurting. We did that all last summer, and then I found out she had ulcers and I got her teeth done and realized she had never had any of that stuff done, and she's like a different horse after doing all that. I know (at least I hope) that she has the potential to make a nice horse. I feel like I just need more control when we are running, she's come a long way since I bought her, so I'm no where near ready to give up on her, but its probably going to be a long haul to get her actually running at that level.
90% of all our problems are rider error. I think if alot more people realized that and took a few steps back with themselves alot of issues would be ressolved. It took me a long time to realize how much I was lacking with my off the track mare when it came to helping her during her actual run. Not to mention every season she seemed to pull a new 'trick' outta the bag to throw at me. She use to blow passed first, started diving for second, and most recently giving me the bird on the backside of third. And I have spent a pretty penny at multiply vets thinking it was something physical...to be quite honest a little voice still tells me part of it is...but since no vet has truly been able to find 'something' I spent last season going back to basics with her and just doing time onlys. Really focused on myself during the run which ultimately smoothed things out with her. Now we're just gradually building our confidence back up each run....til she decideds to pull something else. 
From what I see, your mare looks super nice with plenty of potential. Defiantly worth the expense in insuring nothing is bothering her, and worth time fixing the minor things that will pay off big down the road.
Keep us updated! | |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Soon to be outta here:) | Three*C*Champs - 2014-06-11 3:31 PM
LDH - 2014-06-11 8:54 AM Yes, you are 100% right. 90% of our problems are that I'm not quite sure how to ride her....rate really isn't something she likes to do. You can see in the video how high she gets her head. I can ride her around at home and she does fabulous with headset and she's a joy to ride. But when we go to run, we kinda lose that. I totally see what you're saying, I don't ask for really any rate. She's one of those horses that I can watch her and tell what I need to do, but actually doing it and convincing her to do it is not quite as easy. She's little but she's powerful! And when she wants to run, she runs. We had problems with shouldering barrels and knocking, so I get nervous to ask her to rate too soon because im afraid she'll just shoulder her barrel then instead of just sitting down and turning. We obviously have a lot of work to still do, I just don't want to assume its all a training issue and fight with her if she's actually just hurting. We did that all last summer, and then I found out she had ulcers and I got her teeth done and realized she had never had any of that stuff done, and she's like a different horse after doing all that. I know (at least I hope) that she has the potential to make a nice horse. I feel like I just need more control when we are running, she's come a long way since I bought her, so I'm no where near ready to give up on her, but its probably going to be a long haul to get her actually running at that level.
90% of all our problems are rider error. I think if alot more people realized that and took a few steps back with themselves alot of issues would be ressolved. It took me a long time to realize how much I was lacking with my off the track mare when it came to helping her during her actual run. Not to mention every season she seemed to pull a new 'trick' outta the bag to throw at me. She use to blow passed first, started diving for second, and most recently giving me the bird on the backside of third. And I have spent a pretty penny at multiply vets thinking it was something physical...to be quite honest a little voice still tells me part of it is...but since no vet has truly been able to find 'something' I spent last season going back to basics with her and just doing time onlys. Really focused on myself during the run which ultimately smoothed things out with her. Now we're just gradually building our confidence back up each run....til she decideds to pull something else. From what I see, your mare looks super nice with plenty of potential. Defiantly worth the expense in insuring nothing is bothering her, and worth time fixing the minor things that will pay off big down the road.
Keep us updated!Â
While reading this I had to double check to make sure that I was reading what you wrote, and not what I had wrote! your mare sounds just like mine. Last year was the first barrel problem, she started with blowing past it, then we went to shouldering it really bad. Now this year that's improved a little, and she started shouldering second and third. And then just recently she started the fun blowing out of third thing. But I do feel like Im really not doing a lot to help her on the pattern...my other mare that ive had for years is a point and kick type horse. The most I need to do with her is sit in the right places. This mare is nothing like that, I need to be riding her every second of the run, or its not going to go well. I did a whole bunch of slow work over the winter and I think that helped a ton to get her to just have confidence in me as a rider. But were still pretty iffy on the pattern. I will for sure get her checked out because I would hate to have her be hurting and me just assume that its just another training issue. If its not that, back to slow work and relearning we go I guess!
Im glad Im not the only one who has horses like this! sometimes I seriously question my sanity in refusing to give up on her! Thanks for the advice and the vote of confidence!! | |
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