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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
 
Location: OK | Where is the very best person for fixing a problem horse? I need some advise. No advise is unwelcome.
Horse has been vetted. But he's either crippled or a complete idiot.... because about the time I think I'm getting somewhere, it goes south.
If he was crippled, I would think he would never be able to turn, but he does, after a huge fight and a lot of lunging and climbing with tongue out and head in the air, half way across the pen like a wild mustang, legs going in all directions, lather, I can take him through and he will work.
Now if he's spoiled, I should be able to get through to him eventually. He runs to the first, rates off my seat, sets up for the turn, gets on the back side, I'm relaxed, thinking he's going to finish, and he rears and lunges and fights, bows out. I'm guessing maybe he was hurt, someone let him run to the alley from the first. I have never let him get away with anything like that.
He feels so good going in that he tricks me every time. I'm very conscious of my hands in this situation to be sure I'm not causing it. This is usually only on the 1st barrel.
I have tried switching him to the left. He CAN make right turns.
He's pretty willing to do about anything I've asked of him besides this. He can set and turn without a barrel or if the barrels are set up in another drill. But on the pattern only, still having trouble. I've trotted, slow worked, set up other drills etc etc for months. It's time for him to put it together. He's 10 years old. He's educated, he's well broke.
Give me suggestions. I've tried all head gear, but in my mind, no amount of pulling or how I have my hands or outside leg or bla bla will keep him from doing it if he wants to do it. So what in the world do I do? He's too gentle and nice to just shoot him lol. |
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 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
 
| Get him to a good lameness vet. Sounds like he has a pain issue.
And if you keep working and working and working him, you aren't making it any better. He'll get more and more obnoxious trying to avoid the pain. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| If he has been vetted by an equine lameness specialist, xrayed, ultrasounded. Then I would say blown up.
I have rode one, not my horse, if there were horses in the arena he would run amazing, take everyone out of the arena the would comitt to the turn, shorten stride, bend in the rib cage, give in the face, then not turn and go up the wall.
My cousin rehabbed one the horse would dart back in between the first and second, it took her a year and a bit of slow work before he was confident to run.
If they are blown up yes they are rehab able but it takes time, lots of walking the barrels, trotting, to build trust that they can feel confident that no one will be ripping their face off spurring the crap out of them, or shipping the snot out of them.
Good luck |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | Nateracer - 2014-10-07 12:27 PM
Get him to a good lameness vet. Sounds like he has a pain issue.
And if you keep working and working and working him, you aren't making it any better. He'll get more and more obnoxious trying to avoid the pain.
But if it is a pain issue, how is it that he can set and turn hard if the barrels are set up other than in the barrel pattern? Or, if I'm just loping circles and I ask him to set and make a barrel turn with nothing there, he does. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
 
Location: North Dakota | Can you go into detail EXACTLY what has been checked at the vet?
When were teeth done last?
Chiro?
Massage?
Saddle fit?
I'm just thinking pain.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | jojammer - 2014-10-07 12:51 PM Nateracer - 2014-10-07 12:27 PM Get him to a good lameness vet. Sounds like he has a pain issue.
And if you keep working and working and working him, you aren't making it any better. He'll get more and more obnoxious trying to avoid the pain. But if it is a pain issue, how is it that he can set and turn hard if the barrels are set up other than in the barrel pattern? Or, if I'm just loping circles and I ask him to set and make a barrel turn with nothing there, he does.
Because due to the change in setup, the turn might not be exactly the same angle, so it might not hurt.
EX- I sprained my ankle years ago. It healed fine. However, sometimes if I stepped just the right way, it would hurt like the dickens and give out.
It was only sometimes and only if I twisted it just right.
The angle coming into the second barrel and the angle coming into the third are different, even through they are both turning the same direction.
He could also just be blown up mentally.. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | jojammer - 2014-10-07 12:22 PM Where is the very best person for fixing a problem horse? I need some advise. No advise is unwelcome. Horse has been vetted. But he's either crippled or a complete idiot.... because about the time I think I'm getting somewhere, it goes south. If he was crippled, I would think he would never be able to turn, but he does, after a huge fight and a lot of lunging and climbing with tongue out and head in the air, half way across the pen like a wild mustang, legs going in all directions, lather, I can take him through and he will work. Now if he's spoiled, I should be able to get through to him eventually. He runs to the first, rates off my seat, sets up for the turn, gets on the back side, I'm relaxed, thinking he's going to finish, and he rears and lunges and fights, bows out. I'm guessing maybe he was hurt, someone let him run to the alley from the first. I have never let him get away with anything like that. He feels so good going in that he tricks me every time. I'm very conscious of my hands in this situation to be sure I'm not causing it. This is usually only on the 1st barrel. I have tried switching him to the left. He CAN make right turns. He's pretty willing to do about anything I've asked of him besides this. He can set and turn without a barrel or if the barrels are set up in another drill. But on the pattern only, still having trouble. I've trotted, slow worked, set up other drills etc etc for months. It's time for him to put it together. He's 10 years old. He's educated, he's well broke. Give me suggestions. I've tried all head gear, but in my mind, no amount of pulling or how I have my hands or outside leg or bla bla will keep him from doing it if he wants to do it. So what in the world do I do? He's too gentle and nice to just shoot him lol.
This would be a tale tail sign that there is pain somewhere he's trying to get away from. |
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  Friendly horse swapper
Posts: 4122
Location: Buffalo, TX | Where are you in Oklahoma? I've been hauling my horse pretty regular, so If I see you somewhere, I'll be glad to go over his acupuncture points for you....a pretty foolproof way of locating undiagnosed pain....I learned this from Dr. McLaren many years ago...if he's sore, I guarantee it will show up... |
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Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| jojammer - 2014-10-07 12:51 PM Nateracer - 2014-10-07 12:27 PM Get him to a good lameness vet. Sounds like he has a pain issue.
And if you keep working and working and working him, you aren't making it any better. He'll get more and more obnoxious trying to avoid the pain. But if it is a pain issue, how is it that he can set and turn hard if the barrels are set up other than in the barrel pattern? Or, if I'm just loping circles and I ask him to set and make a barrel turn with nothing there, he does.
Any extra weight can make it hurt worse. Saddles, pads, you (even if a size 0) add weight. Think of carrying a backpack at school and trying to run for the bus.
But saying that your horse does it anywhere else indicates that they could be blown up. Sometimes this is caused from a pain issue that wasn't corrected and the horse then associates the barrel with the pain. |
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Rad Dork
Posts: 5218
Location: Oklahoma | This is sounding very similiar to my gelding who I found out has an inflammed suspensory. Did the vet do ultrasounds or blocks? My gelding would work a decent pattern in slow work, but when we started running it was like we had never done the basics and just were blowing and going. Loped circles just fine and lunged fine (with saddle on). Took him to a vet with a Lameness Locator and he ultrasounded his back right leg before we even started and it didn't show up. He had the biggest change in lameness once we blocked the suspensories. Vet shaved his leg, re-ultrasounded and found it.
Are there any other changes in his attitude not under saddle? The vet asked me how he acted for the farrier and I said "well, recently he's started cocking an attitude and has been being a pain in the butt.".... turns out that was one of his triggers for the pain.
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Maybe epm
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Cindy Hamilton - 2014-10-07 1:20 PM Where are you in Oklahoma? I've been hauling my horse pretty regular, so If I see you somewhere, I'll be glad to go over his acupuncture points for you....a pretty foolproof way of locating undiagnosed pain....I learned this from Dr. McLaren many years ago...if he's sore, I guarantee it will show up...
What a nice offer  , and love your Avatar, little dogs are so cute dressed up for Halloween  |
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 Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| I didn't read all the responses but the first thing I think of is "He needs a new occupation." maybe he just doesn't like barrels? I've had maybe 2 horses in my 50 years that just need a different job than the one I trained him for. |
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 Texas Taco
Posts: 7499
Location: Bandera, TX | Get his spine x-rayed for kissing spine. I have a mare that I fought with for 3 years - I finally got my explanation for her behavior.
While this is bad news, at least now I know. Wish I would have trusted my gut and gotten back xrays sooner.
BTW - I know have 2 horses with kissing spine. Two out of three - somebody please put me out of misery. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| Its a soundness issue. Of somekind my horse,has been seen by six vets. And i am going a epm treatment now. i was late to,feed him and he was runming and bucking, i have not seem him do that wild. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1092
Location: OK | I've been working with my vet to rule out some things, and we think maybe EPM. Testing this week..... Thank you ALL for your replies. Much of this info did help me make some decisions. Will keep you posted :) |
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | In my opinion it sounds like it at the very least STARTED as pain...whether or not he's still on pain or just associating the pattern with pain, can be hard to determine. Even if he's not in pain anymore he's going to need a LOT of slow work to bring his mind back. |
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