|
|
 Member
Posts: 49
| I have two horses I switched to RG about 4-5 months ago and they just aren't keeping weight on like I would like AT ALL! I'm giving them the max serving size. This feed has really helped their minds and it's making me sad that it's not keeping their weight!! I know it's wintwr but they are generally pretty easy keepers. One mare is out on pasture and one is in work. They get grass hay mostly. Should I consider changing feeds or should I add something? I want them to stay calm like they are now. And I would also love to not spend a ton... Asking a lot I know lol!
PLEASE SUGGESTIONS |
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 974
 
Location: USA | You can add a fiber source like beet pulp for added calories or added fat. What about alfalfa? |
|
| |
|
The Resident Destroyer of Liberal Logic
Location: PNW | I would add alfalfa. I have a pretty hard keeper who is naturally lanky and he gets 1.5 lbs of RG per day and free choice alfalfa 24/7 along with free choice grass hay 24/7. He looks absolutely fantastic. I am a RG believer for life. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1643
Location: Willows, CA | Call me on my cell at 530-518-8254 and we can go over your program. It should be easy to figure out what is going on. I am on west coast time, and on the road on Wednesday. You should be able to reach me.
Win |
|
| |
|
Location: Texas | My mare was the only one who needed an adjustment when we started feeding RG. Added alfalfa and she looks just as good as the others.
Edited by EqualRanch 2015-02-25 7:36 AM
|
|
| |
|
  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6341
Location: NE Texas | I had the same problem when I fed it. Gave it a legitimate shot and fed it for about 6 months. Had three different horses on it ranging in age from 3 - 15 and only one being ridden of those three. They all lost weight and were almost lethargic acting on it. I was feeding it with Forco and grass hay. I spoke to Mr. Willows who was very helpful and suggested I add soaked alfalfa pellets, which I did. Did that for another 60 days or so and nothing changed and my horses were almost ribby at this point. It just didn't work for me or my program. I'm in no way knocking the feed, as I know there are many who it is really working for, but it just didn't work for my program and none of my horses thrived on it. I changed back to my Safechoice and stopped the alfalfa pellets and they immediately rebounded and looked great again after about 45 days.
|
|
| |
|
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I used to add beet pulp for more calories but just switched to chaffhaye- seems to be a cleaner and more nutritious product then beet bulp although mine did great on BP. Mine also get baled alfalfa. When grazing is good I back way off the extra calories.
Edited by rodeomom3 2015-02-26 5:55 PM
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1643
Location: Willows, CA | When I see a program where all the horses have an issue there is usually something the we can identify going on. As I said before, when we shift the calorie load to the roughage and away from the feed concentrate it is important that the roughage has the calories to support that change. Straight grass hay diets are the hardest because of the fast time through the gut. In over 90% of the cases there is a teeth issue that goes along with this. A once per year float, or having a vet look in the mouth is not good enough on any grass hay diet. You need to be able to check yourself. The slightest rough edge that causes discomfort when they chew greatly effect the horses ability to completely digest grass hay. It needs to be well chewed to get the calories out. Most vets will look in the mouth and say that they are fine for a while longer if they don't see big hook present. This is a much more subtle problem than that, but easy to see and feel if you know what you are looking for. If you go to conventional feed and the horse blooms it is an indicator the either the hind gut is not working as it should, or the hay does not have enough calories even when well digested. It is a very rare horse that will not thrive on this more natural system. In the long run, working to get the horse efficient this way has a lot of benefits. It costs less than higher feed rate diets, and getting the hind gut to work well gives the horse a much more efficient immune system. That in turn benefits the horse by giving it the ability to avoid health problems. In working with this every day we usually find the reason when a horse does not bloom on Renew Gold. I all your horses do not bloom on this program there is certainly a common reason, and it is usually hay or pasture quality, teeth or parasites. I have always said, the best supplement money you can spend is feeding better hay. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 49
| How much alfalfa? We can't get normal baled alfalfa here(west tn), I can only get condensed bales, cubes, and pellets. I've alteady added in half a scoop( not sure weight) of alfalfa pellets cause they are getting ribby but I'm not seeing any difference... Should I be giving condensed bale? |
|
| |
|
 It's not my fault I'm perfect
Posts: 13738
Location: Where the long tails flow, ND | Same happened to me- I was sad because I wanted it to work :) |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Call Win! He helped my gelding out tremendously, I wasn't feeding enough forage.  |
|
| |
|
 Neat Freak
Posts: 11213
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | My horses are only on grass hay, but it is free choice and really good quality. At least when we don't have a drought and can feed what comes off our meadow. Would this work for my horses? We do keep up on dental. One is a 30ish pony that quids his hay right now. He is going in for teeth work in about a month. He had loose teeth last yr. He keeps weight REALLY well though as most ponies do. |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 49
| So y'all would say more alfalfa? And what about Chaffhaye? I've heard of it, how do you use it with your feed program? |
|
| |
|
Blessed 
Location: Here | Herbie - 2015-02-25 8:46 AM I had the same problem when I fed it. Gave it a legitimate shot and fed it for about 6 months. Had three different horses on it ranging in age from 3 - 15 and only one being ridden of those three. They all lost weight and were almost lethargic acting on it. I was feeding it with Forco and grass hay. I spoke to Mr. Willows who was very helpful and suggested I add soaked alfalfa pellets, which I did. Did that for another 60 days or so and nothing changed and my horses were almost ribby at this point. It just didn't work for me or my program. I'm in no way knocking the feed, as I know there are many who it is really working for, but it just didn't work for my program and none of my horses thrived on it. I changed back to my Safechoice and stopped the alfalfa pellets and they immediately rebounded and looked great again after about 45 days.
I too had the same problem I was giving free choice alfalfa but she was a nursing Broodie though too but it just wasn't enough I like the concept but it wasnt enough |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1643
Location: Willows, CA | winwillows - 2015-02-25 1:29 AM
Call me on my cell at 530-518-8254 and we can go over your program. It should be easy to figure out what is going on. I am on west coast time, and on the road on Wednesday. You should be able to reach me.
Win
This, call us if you have an issue. A horse that will carry weight on a 4+ pound grain ration but not on forage based ration has a non functioning hind gut. This also means a compromised immune system, and a higher colic risk. We can usually sort this out for you, and are happy to help. |
|
| |
|
Blessed
Location: Here | winwillows - 2015-02-25 10:51 PM winwillows - 2015-02-25 1:29 AM Call me on my cell at 530-518-8254 and we can go over your program. It should be easy to figure out what is going on. I am on west coast time, and on the road on Wednesday. You should be able to reach me. Win This, call us if you have an issue. A horse that will carry weight on a 4+ pound grain ration but not on forage based ration has a non functioning hind gut. This also means a compromised immune system, and a higher colic risk. We can usually sort this out for you, and are happy to help.
I respectfully disagree that all horses that don't thrive on RG have non functioning hind gut issues with compromised immune systems and high risk colics. I also don't believe that you should have to add expensive alfalfa. When you start upping the alfalfa I feel you can further cause issues with too much protein and get cal/phos out of whack. I am NOT a huge advocate of high protein. I did try it and when I switched to safe choice I was able to stop feeding 15# of RG a day. And was able to cut back on the amount of $23 a bale alfalfa. I do however feel some horses do thrive on it. My 3 year old gelding came home from kmcsunshines house looking fantastic after being on RG So I think sometimes it is the individual horses. Like I said JMHO |
|
| |
|
 Veteran
Posts: 226
Location: Middle Tennessee | I had the same issue. I was told to feed alfalfa, but I have a gelding that can't have alfalfa because he has an issue with a bone spur. The alfalfa has too high of a calcium content for him. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1643
Location: Willows, CA | SG. - 2015-02-26 12:13 PM
winwillows - 2015-02-25 10:51 PM winwillows - 2015-02-25 1:29 AM Call me on my cell at 530-518-8254 and we can go over your program. It should be easy to figure out what is going on. I am on west coast time, and on the road on Wednesday. You should be able to reach me. Win This, call us if you have an issue. A horse that will carry weight on a 4+ pound grain ration but not on forage based ration has a non functioning hind gut. This also means a compromised immune system, and a higher colic risk. We can usually sort this out for you, and are happy to help.
There are so many points here, that it is hard to discuss all. There are several indicators of digestive efficiency that stand out when a horse or more importantly a group of horses seem to thrive on one type of feeding program and not on another. Lets look at it this way. A horse needs a certain amount of digestive energy to thrive and carry proper weight. If it takes over 4 pounds of concentrate with your hay to keep the horse fit, then the horse clearly has to rely more on the concentrate for it's nutrition as those levels of concentrate generally become disruptive to an efficient hind gut and efficient hay digestion. In other words, the more concentrate you feed, the less your horse has the ability to completely digest its hay. You can keep a horse fit this way, just look at how they feed on the race track, but you compromise the hind gut in doing so. Remember, on the track they really don't care how long a horse can have a healthy productive life. I did not say in my previous statement that there was a high risk of colic, is said "higher" meaning more risk than in a program that does not feed this way. This type of higher concentrate program can also work if the hay is so poor that there is just not enough calories in it, even if you could capture most of them. The calories have to come from somewhere. If you are stuck with poor hay and your only option is to feed high concentrate rates you need to break them into as many feedings as you can so that the enzymes in the small intestine are not overwhelmed and can break down the starches and sugars there with out it getting into the hind gut. Here is a point where I would rather feed better hay, or add alfalfa to boost poor hay, than feed more concentrate and unbalance the system. Worrying about excess protein here from alfalfa is not an issue, because the failure to thrive clearly shows that the grass hay is most likely short anyway. As to a Cal/phos ratio, you are safe there also. If plenty of roughage along with 1 to 1.5 pounds of RG is fed and the horse is not thriving then either the hay is short of energy, or the horse is not properly digesting the hay that it is eating. 500,000 bags of RG sold tells us that this is true. So, my point, assuming that the hay quality is adequate, is that either not enough roughage is fed, or there are other factors that are preventing the horse from efficiently breaking down that roughage in the hind gut. I have said many times that the most common factor when this happens is the horses inability to chew the grass hay portion of its diet efficiently. Usually this is a teeth problem causing the horse discomfort and therefor causing it to chew less than it normally would. Grass hay that is not chewed well is not digested well. Every horse owner should learn to access the condition of their horses teeth for rough edges on the outside of the uppers and the inside of the lowers. Most people rely on the vet to do this and, in general, they ignore small issues with the teeth until a major float is justified. In my opinion, this is a mistake. As to my statement about the immune system, that is about 80% driven from the hind gut when it is working efficiently. High concentrate rations limit that and therefor proper immune function. Lastly, I agree that Renew Gold is not for everyone, or every horse. Just the vast majority of them.
Edited by winwillows 2015-02-26 1:50 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Career in Looney Tune Land
Posts: 1717
Location: the high desert | My mare dropped weight on renew gold as well and that was with beet pulp and she was also on FORCO. Started her on alfalfa but I decided to switch because not only did she drop in weight she grew a very thick, wiery, dull winter coat and wasn't shedding at all when she normally has a soft and very shinny winter coat. Switched her feed over to purina enrich plus and rice bran and within a week she started shedding and her coat became super soft and very shinny and she also started filling backout on her top line. So it's just like everything in this world, may work amazingly for one and not work at all for another. |
|
| |
|
Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24938
Location: WYOMING | My allergic to every feed horse is doing great on RG and alfalfa. Sad news is I cant get RG easily but I did like the product for my mare for the month I used it. Will be interesting comparing results to the substitute product I am using.
Edited by geronabean 2015-02-26 5:35 PM
|
|
| |
Folks on-line