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Posts: 1994
   
| So my gelding is working great in a basic snaffle. I have noticed that we need to work on woahing more and backing better. Somehow that has slipped and I took notice of it the other day.
Any who. he's been 'mouthing' his bit a lot, and I think I'm losing his attention in this particular bit. I notice with the ones that have 'rollers' or something for his tongue to play with that hes much more quiet minded while riding. I ran across this bit the other day in the barn. Pros and cons?? Do you think this would help quiet him without being a severe bit?
help me out again ladies ! | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 8:43 AM
So my gelding is working great in a basic snaffle. I have noticed that we need to work on woahing more and backing better. Somehow that has slipped and I took notice of it the other day.
Any who. he's been 'mouthing' his bit a lot, and I think I'm losing his attention in this particular bit. I notice with the ones that have 'rollers' or something for his tongue to play with that hes much more quiet minded while riding. I ran across this bit the other day in the barn. Pros and cons?? Do you think this would help quiet him without being a severe bit?
help me out again ladies !
Yes, that roller should keep his mouth happier. You have also moved from a curb (shanked bit) to a snaffle which is gentler BUT doesn't have as much whoa and won't make him back up as well because you've lost poll pressure. So . . . you need to get him softer.
What are you doing right now, in order, to ask him to stop? Be very specific about each part of your body. Do you do it any differently at different speeds. Do you have video? | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| oija - 2015-04-22 8:52 AM americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 8:43 AM So my gelding is working great in a basic snaffle. I have noticed that we need to work on woahing more and backing better. Somehow that has slipped and I took notice of it the other day.
Any who. he's been 'mouthing' his bit a lot, and I think I'm losing his attention in this particular bit. I notice with the ones that have 'rollers' or something for his tongue to play with that hes much more quiet minded while riding. I ran across this bit the other day in the barn. Pros and cons?? Do you think this would help quiet him without being a severe bit?
help me out again ladies ! Yes, that roller should keep his mouth happier. You have also moved from a curb (shanked bit ) to a snaffle which is gentler BUT doesn't have as much whoa and won't make him back up as well because you've lost poll pressure. So . . . you need to get him softer. What are you doing right now, in order, to ask him to stop? Be very specific about each part of your body. Do you do it any differently at different speeds. Do you have video?
I'm trying really hard to woah with my body. By sitting deeper, saying woah,putting my feet forward and down in the stirrups, picking UP on the reins . but I stil feel like I'm having to get in his mouth too much to ask for a stop. . . because after intially asking he just keeps going, so I tug very lightly on indivdual sides to ask for a stop. Still no woah. Practically having to walk/trot him straight at the fence to get him to halt all of the sudden. At a lope he woahs great. It's just the trot and walk. I think I might be able to 'sit deeper' more easily at a lope and at a walk and trot I'm loosing some of the process or something. He flexes good in circles to the left and right, we have great lateral movement.
Edited by americanpride08 2015-04-22 9:30 AM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 9:27 AM
oija - 2015-04-22 8:52 AM americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 8:43 AM So my gelding is working great in a basic snaffle. I have noticed that we need to work on woahing more and backing better. Somehow that has slipped and I took notice of it the other day.
Any who. he's been 'mouthing' his bit a lot, and I think I'm losing his attention in this particular bit. I notice with the ones that have 'rollers' or something for his tongue to play with that hes much more quiet minded while riding. I ran across this bit the other day in the barn. Pros and cons?? Do you think this would help quiet him without being a severe bit?
help me out again ladies ! Yes, that roller should keep his mouth happier. You have also moved from a curb (shanked bit ) to a snaffle which is gentler BUT doesn't have as much whoa and won't make him back up as well because you've lost poll pressure. So . . . you need to get him softer. What are you doing right now, in order, to ask him to stop? Be very specific about each part of your body. Do you do it any differently at different speeds. Do you have video?
I'm trying really hard to woah with my body. By sitting deeper, saying woah,putting my feet forward and down in the stirrups, picking UP on the reins . but I stil feel like I'm having to get in his mouth too much to ask for a stop. . . because after intially asking he just keeps going, so I tug very lightly on indivdual sides to ask for a stop. Still no woah. Practically having to walk/trot him straight at the fence to get him to halt all of the sudden. At a lope he woahs great. It's just the trot and walk. I think I might be able to 'sit deeper' more easily at a lope and at a walk and trot I'm loosing some of the process or something. He flexes good in circles to the left and right, we have great lateral movement.
I was taught to get a horse to stop
Sit down, then say whoa, then pick up the reins, and make him back up till where you sat down.
If you apply force on the reins, and he is walking through it, you need to apply more force and get him to stop.
I was always taught to get a horse lighter when applying force use pointer finger on the reins first, if they do not listen apply middle finger, if they do not listen apply ring finger, if they don't listen use entire hand.
As soon as a horse responds you do need to release immediately, this is key
I suggest trying to go to horsemanship clinics, and colt starting clinics, as this may be the piece you are missing | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 9:27 AM
oija - 2015-04-22 8:52 AM americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 8:43 AM So my gelding is working great in a basic snaffle. I have noticed that we need to work on woahing more and backing better. Somehow that has slipped and I took notice of it the other day.
Any who. he's been 'mouthing' his bit a lot, and I think I'm losing his attention in this particular bit. I notice with the ones that have 'rollers' or something for his tongue to play with that hes much more quiet minded while riding. I ran across this bit the other day in the barn. Pros and cons?? Do you think this would help quiet him without being a severe bit?
help me out again ladies ! Yes, that roller should keep his mouth happier. You have also moved from a curb (shanked bit ) to a snaffle which is gentler BUT doesn't have as much whoa and won't make him back up as well because you've lost poll pressure. So . . . you need to get him softer. What are you doing right now, in order, to ask him to stop? Be very specific about each part of your body. Do you do it any differently at different speeds. Do you have video?
I'm trying really hard to woah with my body. By sitting deeper, saying woah,putting my feet forward and down in the stirrups, picking UP on the reins . but I stil feel like I'm having to get in his mouth too much to ask for a stop. . . because after intially asking he just keeps going, so I tug very lightly on indivdual sides to ask for a stop. Still no woah. Practically having to walk/trot him straight at the fence to get him to halt all of the sudden. At a lope he woahs great. It's just the trot and walk. I think I might be able to 'sit deeper' more easily at a lope and at a walk and trot I'm loosing some of the process or something. He flexes good in circles to the left and right, we have great lateral movement.
Video will really help. It sounds like you are trying to understand each part. The question is are you doing it all at once or progressively. You should ask with your body before you ever ask with your hands and cheryl is right at asking lightly with your hands before. And if he doesn't stop when you ask back up a few steps. That being said YOU will help him be a better stopper by asking at the right time. Work on at a trot and lope always knowing where each foot is. You can start by looking, watching a shadow, having someone tell you but you eventually want to feel it. As you get a better feel for his pattern (and this takes a bit) you will get better at asking at the right time. Maybe you have this 'feel' a bit better at a lope than at a walk or trot. I used to have it pretty well but being off some, gaining weight, and having hurt horses has put me behind. I'm relearning that feel. A trainer is a lot of help here. Watch videos too of people who 'have feel.' It gives you an idea of what you should look like. Look at every leg when they ask them to stop; break each part down. Don't expect it all at once. It's like learning a new language.
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| Unfortunately clinics and stuff are out of my price budget right now. I'm trying to get my fence and stuff up so that I can move him from the barn I board at. Though, once he's back out there I'm planning on taking lessons as I'll have large area to work in once it's all done.
I feel like he's stopped respecting any kind of pull/tug motion to his mouth as far as going in a straight line to stop. IF I stop him in a very slow 'emergency stop' fashion he will or if I"m at a lope he'll stop without any mouth contact but lifting the reins. | |
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Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 11:21 AM
Unfortunately clinics and stuff are out of my price budget right now. I'm trying to get my fence and stuff up so that I can move him from the barn I board at. Though, once he's back out there I'm planning on taking lessons as I'll have large area to work in once it's all done.
I feel like he's stopped respecting any kind of pull/tug motion to his mouth as far as going in a straight line to stop. IF I stop him in a very slow 'emergency stop' fashion he will or if I"m at a lope he'll stop without any mouth contact but lifting the reins.
You are on the right track, just be patient. It can take them a month or 2 to really start to get it. Say whoa, while sitting and pulling back the reins to the swells of your saddle. Now DON'T release until he tucks his nose and/or takes a step back. When he does, release and make him stand there for a minute and pet him. The will teach him to respect your command and standing will drive the point that you want him to stop.
He is probably stopping better at a lope because he is being lazy and wants to quit! They like to do that!
Edited by TheDutchMan01 2015-04-22 1:54 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 11:21 AM
Unfortunately clinics and stuff are out of my price budget right now. I'm trying to get my fence and stuff up so that I can move him from the barn I board at. Though, once he's back out there I'm planning on taking lessons as I'll have large area to work in once it's all done.
I feel like he's stopped respecting any kind of pull/tug motion to his mouth as far as going in a straight line to stop. IF I stop him in a very slow 'emergency stop' fashion he will or if I"m at a lope he'll stop without any mouth contact but lifting the reins.
If he has stopped respecting the bit, he hasn't been taught properly, a horse should be listening to your seat, not your hands.
IMO your hands are probably not light enough, as the other person said you need that feel on when to hold and when to let go.
When starting my colts, I never use a fence or anything to stop mine. Mine learned the one rein stop, then stopping when I sit down by doing the sit say whoa then pick up the reins and back them up to where I said whoa.
I honestly would start back at square one teaching the horse to listen to my body not the reins, work on controlling the hips and shoulder at a stand still by using your legs.
Move the horse forward a few steps sit down say whoa pick up reins then back him up.
It does take time, and it takes even longer to undo wrong training then starting a horse from scratch | |
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Location: Texas | Does he listen and respond well to the bit when you are on the ground?
I have always been told (and I do agree, especially with a snaffle) that if your horse won't listen and respect the bit on the ground, why would you expect them to listen when your on their back....
In my opinion if a horse isn't working in a snaffle, they won't work in anything.
This is hypothetical, if you stick a 6" shank in his mouth now, what are you going to do when you gradually add speed and need a quicker "whoa", just find a bit with a longer shank? No, that doesn't make any sense.
At this level, you shouldn't be changing bits to "fix" him.
Keep working on it, use your legs, soft hands and ask more of him only after he listens. This is his foundation that will remain with him throughout his life, just remember "slow and correct". | |
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Ask the person that broke and rode your horse for some help, quit guessing on what type of bit that he needs.
Or save up for a clinic to get the right kind of help. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| EqualRanch - 2015-04-22 3:30 PM Does he listen and respond well to the bit when you are on the ground?
I have always been told (and I do agree, especially with a snaffle) that if your horse won't listen and respect the bit on the ground, why would you expect them to listen when your on their back....
In my opinion if a horse isn't working in a snaffle, they won't work in anything.
This is hypothetical, if you stick a 6" shank in his mouth now, what are you going to do when you gradually add speed and need a quicker "whoa", just find a bit with a longer shank? No, that doesn't make any sense.
At this level, you shouldn't be changing bits to "fix" him.
Keep working on it, use your legs, soft hands and ask more of him only after he listens. This is his foundation that will remain with him throughout his life, just remember "slow and correct". The bit change wasn't to fix the woah problem. The bit change is because he's very busy minded and settles better with a roller on his bits. I was asking if it would still be about the same level of bit but with a roller
Edited by americanpride08 2015-04-22 4:27 PM
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Location: Texas | americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 3:57 PM EqualRanch - 2015-04-22 3:30 PM Does he listen and respond well to the bit when you are on the ground?
I have always been told (and I do agree, especially with a snaffle) that if your horse won't listen and respect the bit on the ground, why would you expect them to listen when your on their back....
In my opinion if a horse isn't working in a snaffle, they won't work in anything.
This is hypothetical, if you stick a 6" shank in his mouth now, what are you going to do when you gradually add speed and need a quicker "whoa", just find a bit with a longer shank? No, that doesn't make any sense.
At this level, you shouldn't be changing bits to "fix" him.
Keep working on it, use your legs, soft hands and ask more of him only after he listens. This is his foundation that will remain with him throughout his life, just remember "slow and correct". The bit change wasn't to fix the woah problem. The bit change is because he's very busy minded and settles better with a roller on his bits. I was asking if it would still be about the same level of bit but with a roller
Yes, the last picture would be about the same level as a snaffle with a roller.
All the other bits you posted pictures of, especially the first two and the shank bit, shouldn't be anywhere near your horse until he will do anything you ask of him.
We have ranch horses that are 8-10 years old and still ride in a snaffle, because their mouth is that soft and they still listen to it. So there is no point in putting a shank bit in their mouth - if it's not broke, don't fix it.
Anyways.... I hope one of us has been helpful and it's starting to make a little more sense. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| EqualRanch - 2015-04-22 4:40 PM americanpride08 - 2015-04-22 3:57 PM EqualRanch - 2015-04-22 3:30 PM Does he listen and respond well to the bit when you are on the ground?
I have always been told (and I do agree, especially with a snaffle) that if your horse won't listen and respect the bit on the ground, why would you expect them to listen when your on their back....
In my opinion if a horse isn't working in a snaffle, they won't work in anything.
This is hypothetical, if you stick a 6" shank in his mouth now, what are you going to do when you gradually add speed and need a quicker "whoa", just find a bit with a longer shank? No, that doesn't make any sense.
At this level, you shouldn't be changing bits to "fix" him.
Keep working on it, use your legs, soft hands and ask more of him only after he listens. This is his foundation that will remain with him throughout his life, just remember "slow and correct". The bit change wasn't to fix the woah problem. The bit change is because he's very busy minded and settles better with a roller on his bits. I was asking if it would still be about the same level of bit but with a roller
All the other bits you posted pictures of, especially the first two and the shank bit, shouldn't be anywhere near your horse until he will do anything you ask of him.
We have ranch horses that are 8-10 years old and still ride in a snaffle, because their mouth is that soft and they still listen to it. So there is no point in putting a shank bit in their mouth - if it's not broke, don't fix it.
Anyways.... I hope one of us has been helpful and it's starting to make a little more sense.
=) Oh yea! the ladies helped me with that. This thread is about a month old now. I just bumped it back up because I had a question about the new bit. Forgot to edit that title! Thanks for the help =) | |
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