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boon
Posts: 4
| Who has experience in doing business with this man? What are your feelings on his training methods, results, reputation, and overall work ethic? I'm pondering over sending a filly to him or not (because of word of mouth), but I truly don't know the man or know of any of his training methods. I've heard a lot of his horses sell for large amounts after going through his training program. Could he really amp up a price tag on a horse because he trained it, given people seem to like him? |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
  
| Heard nothing but good things about him. Puts out some really nice horses!! |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | I've watched some of his videos online (from others not his promotional ones) and I'm just personally not a fan of how he rides. |
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boon
Posts: 4
| equussynergy - 2015-07-23 10:05 AM
I've watched some of his videos online (from others not his promotional ones) and I'm just personally not a fan of how he rides.
Could you list specifics about what you're not drawn to in his riding style? |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | His horses always seem very nervous to me, very artificially collected. Advertising a horse as being started by him wouldn't be an incentive to me. I have no personal experience with him myself, but that's mostly because I haven't been impressed with what I saw. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| Runnin < C > has used him for a couple of her youngsters last year and Angie Meadors has used him for several of hers.
Edited by FlyingJT 2015-07-23 10:42 AM
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Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | Personally I like to keep my legs on my horse not sitting out by their shoulders. I hate the fact he has tie downs, martingales and other gimmicks on horses that are just barely started, like 3- 4 rides in. That is time to get them soft and using their bodies not jamming them up. Lots of the videos I see horses gaping their mouths open and really fighting the bridle and bit. I see lots of stopping on the front end and the rear ends not really engaging. Personally I am a very quiet rider and like a very sensitive horse who is soft in their face and responsive to my legs, I like a horse to move collected and to sort of float on the front end. Go to YouTube and put in his name. You'll see a lot of what I am talking about. I'm sure he works great for alot of people but personally from what I've seen he doesn't make a horse I'd like to ride.
I also agree that his horses look very nervous.
Edited by equussynergy 2015-07-23 10:27 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| I don't know if I would agree with nervous but instead very reactive. |
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 Firecracker Dog Lover
Posts: 3175
| FlyingJT - 2015-07-23 8:38 AM I don't know if I would agree with nervous but instead very reactive.
From the videos I have seen they are reactive - because they appear nervous about what is coming next - and not in a good way. |
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 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | I agree with most above. Not a fan but not to say he hasnt started some good ones. |
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 Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | equussynergy - 2015-07-23 10:24 AM Personally I like to keep my legs on my horse not sitting out by their shoulders. I hate the fact he has tie downs, martingales and other gimmicks on horses that are just barely started, like 3- 4 rides in. That is time to get them soft and using their bodies not jamming them up. Lots of the videos I see horses gaping their mouths open and really fighting the bridle and bit. I see lots of stopping on the front end and the rear ends not really engaging. Personally I am a very quiet rider and like a very sensitive horse who is soft in their face and responsive to my legs, I like a horse to move collected and to sort of float on the front end. Go to YouTube and put in his name. You'll see a lot of what I am talking about. I'm sure he works great for alot of people but personally from what I've seen he doesn't make a horse I'd like to ride.
I also agree that his horses look very nervous.
^^ this ^^ |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 338
Location: Michigan | We've started several young horses using his round pen methods. They all turned out nicely.
We sent a filly to him last March. (We have never sent a horse out for training before as we do everything ourselves). We picked her up in May and attended his clinic at that time also. We like his methods of training and working horses. His methods have made a big difference in our horses in getting them more broke, soft in the face etc. Since we don't train for a living, we probably take more time with the horses than Phil can. He has a different way of looking at things, but it made good sense to us. We have also attended Sharon Camarillo and Ed Wright clinics so we had something to compare Phil's against.
I'd attend another of his clinics and would send him another young horse too. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1150
Location: LaCygne, KS |
Wow, I'm not quiet sure where to begin. I have know Phil for 20-25 years. Very humble, christian, honest, thoughtful man. He has really put a Lot of thought into horsemanship and the foundation on young horses. He has started at least 3 horses for us. They came back solid, fit, broke (certainly not nervous). And they stayed broke. We have been to his place several times, even though we are 400 miles apart. Nothing but well mannered, content horses tied up waiting to be rode or chilling out.
I have ridden in 3 of his clinics over the years and will do so again whenever he is in this part of the world. Anytime any one of these horsemanship guru's is putting on a clinic in my area, I catch up a 30-60 ride young one and go get in it. We (me and the colt) always learn something.
We had Phil up here to put on a horsemanship clinic at our fairgrounds last spring. It was a two day deal divided into adult and youth sessions. EVERYONE loved him and his teaching methods. He started with the riders and horses at their level and built confidence in both.
Do I agree with EVERY one of his methods? No. But we agree there is more than one correct way to reach a desired end point. It's a little hard for me to argue with his sucess or methods when he has put the solid foundation on horses that have gone on to win somewhere between $1million and probably closer to $2 plus million in the arena for their owners. John Teagarden
Edited by Prehistoric 2015-07-24 8:25 AM
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Prehistoric - 2015-07-23 9:03 PM
Wow, I'm not quiet sure where to begin. I have know Phil for 20-25 years. Very humble, christian, honest, thoughtful man. He has really put a Lot of thought into horsemanship and the foundation on young horses. He has started at least 3 horses for us. They came back solid, fit, broke (certainly not nervous). And they stayed broke. We have been to his place several times, even though we are 400 miles apart. Nothing but well mannered, content horses tied up waiting to be rode or chilling out.
I have ridden in 3 of his clinics over the years and will do so again whenever he is in this part of the world. Anytime any one of these horsemanship guru's is putting on a clinic in my area, I catch up a 30-60 ride young one and go get in it. We (me and the colt) always learn something.
We had Phil up here to put on a horsemanship clinic at our fairgrounds last spring. It was a two day deal divided into adult and youth sessions. EVERYONE loved him and his teaching methods. He started with the riders and horses at their level and built confidence in both.
Do I agree with EVERY one of his methods? No. But we agree there is more than one correct way to reach a desired end point. It's a little hard for me to argue with his sucess or methods when he has put the solid foundation on horses that have gone on to win somewhere between $1million and probably closer to $2 plus million in the arena for their owners. John Teagarden
The voice of reason- welcome to the thread killer club....... |
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Member
Posts: 8
Location: Kansas | Have known Phil and his family for a long time. Been to his place several times and have attended a clinic. Bought a 2 yo from him last fall, very well broke, soft, gentle, was everything Phil said he was; not many that young ride as well as this colt does. I have no idea where the nervous idea comes from. The last time we were there, everything saddled and tied up plus whatever he rode that day looked pretty content to us. Phil has been nothing but helpful to me and just great to do business with. |
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