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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 544
 
| BobbieL - 2015-09-09 8:25 PM What benefits have you gotten with the HU ultimate? I'm looking at trying something for me first. Allergies Stress Muscles soreness
i will chime in here...
i am not sure how but Herbie recommended it to me for my horse....
now i am with you and if it doesnt work for me i am not going to spend the money for my horse.... i have a bone spur in my shoulder, 2 spurs in my back, my discs are almost gone in L2, L3, L4. i have arthritis in my right ankle from a very bad break.... i have broken soo many bones... not weak bones it is that your body can only take so much. i have been beat to hell to put it mildly... so i have been taking the ultimate and the pure...
my low back will still go out in the wrong circumstance.... and yes i still have some pain.... but i do not want to go with out these products... with that said do not over do the ultimate.. the greens in it will have you not leaving the toilet.... it is not the best tasting stuff but put it in the blender with orange juice and a banana and all is ok..... i thought well maybe i am just on a good spell and quit taking it..... yep the inflammation in my body came back in a couple of days....
now with all said about how well i love it.... i too should have kept a journal of all the products i have tried over the years....and i am sure this product will not yield the same results to everybody that tries it...
as far as the ingredients being comparable to other products. well i believe some are digestible and some are not.... i have also tried the "other" product that everyone else on this board loves... tried for myself and my horse and did not see any results for either.... i am not saying bad product just not right for me.... | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
  
Location: Midwest | I did get a response from Dr. Schell. I'll post it here when I get to a computer.
Btw, I respect you a lot herbie, and I do believe the product works. Price in it is a deal breaker for me as I'm not having any issues with mine, and I'm cheap cheap. Lol
That being said I do enjoy learning about new products, especially ones that seem to have dramatic results.
As a scientist I feel that studies are extremely important. Curcumin is not new and has research that shows it is a promising chemical for human use.
I'm heading out to work now- so more later. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | This was his response (I basically C&P'd the questions I asked on PG 2). He also sent me 6 papers he has written and said are peer reviewed. I haven't looked at them yet, but I will soon. If anyone would like me to forward them along, PM me your email.
Hi Alison, Thank you for your email inquiry regarding our Cur-OST formulas. They are proprietary blends and exact levels of the ingredients are not listed on the labels. The blends are created or were created in our years of veterinary experience, putting together and researching synergism between herbs to accomplish certain tasks regarding health. Given this, we provide pretty high levels of the herbs found in the formulas, actually much higher than average, as our goal is to obtain results clinically in the patients. We do keep the levels of each ingredient confidential due to proprietary reasons and years of formula research and development. In regards to the mushroom blends we use, we focus on 7 main mushrooms including Agaricus, Cordyceps, Lentinula, Grifola, Gandoderma, Coriolus and Poria. Again, the levels are based on our proprietary blend. You can look at each product online and click on the specification tab below the product photo, which will give you more information regarding the label and ingredients contained. In regards to sources for our ingredients, they vary dependent on the ingredient, but each are tested routinely for bacterial levels and heavy metals to suit our specifications, which are quite rigid. I hope this helps. If I can assist further, please let me know. Thank you. Tom Schell, D.V.M. Nouvelle Research, Inc. | |
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 I Want a "MAN"
Posts: 3610
Location: MD | I just ordered my first two bags of the Green. Wish me luck! :) | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Asking my sister about some of the stuff going on with this product. She's a pharmacist. I'm always skeptical about any herbal blends. Most of the stuff I'm going to give is going to be amino acid, vitamin/mineral based. My sister calls these the building blocks and so long as they are at good healthy levels most horses do great. But I'm curious about this. I love to do research too. :) I'm not anti alternative. I believe highly in acupuncture for certain purposes and am a big massage fan (I give my horses liniment massages somewhat regularly). These have worked great for three of my horses. I'm on the fence with magnets but willing to try (that's a one time cost thing anyway) and of course BOT helps with heat which can be helpful so long as you are careful about the context in which you use it. Huge fan of icing too. I'm also saving up to get my own TQ Solo laser (so wish I could have got hubby to buy the one last year for $1200 on ebay but he was on the fence--now they are 2500).
And as I'm writing this she sends me like 7 peer-reviewed articles. Well I'm off to read and report back. . .
ETA: She says it works like resveratrol from red wine. I would love it if red wine could cure my inflammation.
Edited by oija 2015-09-10 8:37 AM
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Location: Texas | Just ordered the HU ultimate. Will order more after I start using this. I'm interested in the pure, immune and metabolic one for humans also. | |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | BobbieL, I orginally started taking the product to help with some GI problems I was having. IBS symptoms, to which I have been to the doctor and have taken medication for, as well as allergy issues, and other pain issues from old injuries and surgeries. I have noticed a big improvement in my GI issues and am actually "regular" (sorry, TMI), my allergy issues are much improved as well and I have only bought one box of allergy meds this year and still have one sleeve in my purse in case of emergency, but haven't taken an allergy pill since early may. I'm a pretty low stress person anyway, so I haven't noticed a reduction in my stress, so I can't comment on that. Hope this helps. There are several others who have begun using the product for more serious issues than mine with good results, and they may be better at answering these questions than me.
There is a lady I work with (non horse person, and certainly not a BHW reader) who has fibromyalgia and sees a specialist in the metroplex for the condition. She has been on all kinds of different medications for years and suffered many side effects from the various medications. There was a week when she couldn't even get out of bed to come to work due to the pain. I sent her the website and shared my story about the results I have experienced with my horse and left it at that. Never checked back with her. Yesterday she came in and said she just wanted to thank me. She has been on the product for two weeks and has been able to taper off her medication and said she feels like she could completely get off of it, but she's scared to, which I completely understand! | |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I am certainly no experct on this subject, but did do my homework before purchasing my first bag of product regarding the differences between curcurmin and tumeric and the efficacy of both. I read as much as I could to try to educate myself on tumeric and curcurmin and the differences from a health perspective. I even bought bulk tumeric (which I still have 90% of if someone would like it). French's mustard is what got me on this journey to begin with, then researching the ingredients of it, then researching tumeric, then curcurmin. I didn't stumble across the Cur-OST site until later when I began researching BCM-95 curcurmin and the increased absorption rate (96% as compared to the 50 - 60% of pure curcurmin, turmeric is much lower than that, as it only contains 2 - 5% of pure curcurmin). The health benefits are coming from the curcurmin in the tumeric, not vice versa. So yes, there are likely some health benefits received from supplementing tumeric combined with a fat/oil and cracked pepper or pepperdine, but the benefits are multiplied when using BCM-95 curcurmin due to the increased absorption. I will attach a few articles below that I saved when doing my research several months ago.
http://www.curcuminforhealth.com/the-difference-between-turmeric-and-curcumin/
http://www.lifeextension.com/Magazine/2007/10/report_curcumin/Page-01
Edited by Herbie 2015-09-10 9:06 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| Herbie - 2015-09-09 8:10 PM No disrespect taken, Bear. Only way to compare if one is "better" than the other would be to compare two animals/humans with exactly the same symptoms in a blind study. Certainly no denying the value of turmeric combined with oil and Pepperdine. What works for some won't always work for others, I am simply sharing my experiences in order to give others hope when there seemingly isn't any left.
So after reading all of this .... I really think the Dr should run a true clinical trial. I know that it's been done with Platinum with great success. I believe THE has also published - both in scientific peer reviewed journals.
The credibility of the product goes WAY up when published in a peer reviewed journal - heck, it can be something as simple as PLOS ONE which doesn't require University or Federal grants, but does require you to disclose where your funding originated as well as demonstrate scientific evidence with your project. Or he could even submit to the Journal of Equine Veterinary Science which regularly publishes reserach on feed stuffs, ulcers, etc. You don't have to have a bunch of letters after your name to produce sound science or publish it.
Here's the basics of why I would considered paying tripple what I pay now (I feed Platinum daily now) if there was a clinical trial -
1) Credibility - When publishing in a peer reviewed journal, your science is reviewed and found to be sound. Customers know that without a doubt, the product works.
2) The statistics are found to be sound - so by having a "group" of 6 or more animals with similar issues you have replicates that can be compared and data that can be analyzed properly.
3) Heck, you can charge MORE if you so desire for the same product
4) Your product can be FDA approved and can legally sell overseas and cross country borders
5) I can compare between published papers and decide for myself which product I like better - the evidence then is no longer "observational" or ancedotal, it is sound fact.
Basically, what I'm saying, is that Bear has a point with publishing real, non-ancedotal science on the product. I know lots of people are using these products, so it wouldn't be hard for the company to recruit animals for a proper study. He could honestly either pay them in cash or pay them in product (both have been done before). | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5288
| barrelracr131 - 2015-09-10 5:48 AM
This was his response (I basically C&P'd the questions I asked on PG 2). He also sent me 6 papers he has written and said are peer reviewed. I haven't looked at them yet, but I will soon. If anyone would like me to forward them along, PM me your email. Hi Alison, Thank you for your email inquiry regarding our Cur-OST formulas. They are proprietary blends and exact levels of the ingredients are not listed on the labels. The blends are created or were created in our years of veterinary experience, putting together and researching synergism between herbs to accomplish certain tasks regarding health. Given this, we provide pretty high levels of the herbs found in the formulas, actually much higher than average, as our goal is to obtain results clinically in the patients. We do keep the levels of each ingredient confidential due to proprietary reasons and years of formula research and development. In regards to the mushroom blends we use, we focus on 7 main mushrooms including Agaricus, Cordyceps, Lentinula, Grifola, Gandoderma, Coriolus and Poria. Again, the levels are based on our proprietary blend. You can look at each product online and click on the specification tab below the product photo, which will give you more information regarding the label and ingredients contained. In regards to sources for our ingredients, they vary dependent on the ingredient, but each are tested routinely for bacterial levels and heavy metals to suit our specifications, which are quite rigid. I hope this helps. If I can assist further, please let me know. Thank you. Tom Schell, D.V.M. Nouvelle Research, Inc.
THey do have blends that are not as expensive. Like the Green. I started with that. THen I decided that both my horses deserved the TOTAL SUPPORT. One has issues, one doesn't. I calculated that an ounce of prevention is key here. If I can keep my 4 year old inflammation free, hind gut healthy from the time he is 4 then he might retire sound when he is 30. Vet costs for injections etc are FAR MORE expensive than Curost. I teach High school so not made of money but I will sacrifice so my horses have the best since I am demanding that they destroy their body running barrels doing something it was NOT designed to do. Horses were NOT MEANT to run barrels or have their bodies do what we ask of them... They did not ask to be even trail horses. They give me 100% and I am giving them 100% back./ | |
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Expert
Posts: 5288
| lindseylou2290 - 2015-09-10 7:31 AM
Herbie - 2015-09-09 8:10 PM No disrespect taken, Bear. Only way to compare if one is "better" than the other would be to compare two animals/humans with exactly the same symptoms in a blind study. Certainly no denying the value of turmeric combined with oil and Pepperdine. What works for some won't always work for others, I am simply sharing my experiences in order to give others hope when there seemingly isn't any left.
So after reading all of this .... I really think the Dr should run a true clinical trial. I know that it's been done with Platinum with great success. I believe THE has also published - both in scientific peer reviewed journals.
The credibility of the product goes WAY up when published in a peer reviewed journal - heck, it can be something as simple as PLOS ONE which doesn't require University or Federal grants, but does require you to disclose where your funding originated as well as demonstrate scientific evidence with your project. Or he could even submit to the Journal of Equine Veterinary Science which regularly publishes reserach on feed stuffs, ulcers, etc. You don't have to have a bunch of letters after your name to produce sound science or publish it.
Here's the basics of why I would considered paying tripple what I pay now (I feed Platinum daily now) if there was a clinical trial -
1) Credibility - When publishing in a peer reviewed journal, your science is reviewed and found to be sound. Customers know that without a doubt, the product works.
2) The statistics are found to be sound - so by having a "group" of 6 or more animals with similar issues you have replicates that can be compared and data that can be analyzed properly.
3) Heck, you can charge MORE if you so desire for the same product
4) Your product can be FDA approved and can legally sell overseas and cross country borders
5) I can compare between published papers and decide for myself which product I like better - the evidence then is no longer "observational" or ancedotal, it is sound fact.
Basically, what I'm saying, is that Bear has a point with publishing real, non-ancedotal science on the product. I know lots of people are using these products, so it wouldn't be hard for the company to recruit animals for a proper study. He could honestly either pay them in cash or pay them in product (both have been done before).
From what I understand the product is selling like crazy and doing very well, I hope there is no clinical trial. Thats when it gets expensive and the consumer ends up paying for the trial and FDA approval. Adequan probably costs 10.00 a dose but the trials and FDA have made it expensive.. | |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Cur Ost offers bulk curcumin (95% pure) at 61.50 for 100 grams. I randomly found a site that offers the exact same thing for about $205 for 1 Kg (1000 grams). So....buy it from Cur Ost for $615.00/kg versus $205. If it were me, I would go that route first, before taking the plunge at $250 per month. This stuff would surely last several months, probably much longer.
Nobody really knows for sure how much is enough. From what I've read, it looks like 1 tablespoon a day is plenty.
http://www.bulksupplements.com/curcumin-turmeric-extract.html
Edited by Bear 2015-09-10 10:07 AM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I'm not suggesting this stuff should be FDA approved. I'm a stickler when I read claims that something has ostensibly been "scientifically proven". I take that claim seriously....not at face value. When I'm considering a product, particularly a costly one, I want to see how they arrive at the conclusion that the product they are peddling passes muster. I will take individual anecdotal claims under consideration, depending on that person's trustworthiness.....and I trust Herbie, but if it's expensive, I prefer more than that. Also, I don't place as much value on results in laboratory rats as I do in the "Gold Standard", specifically, double blind, randomized clinical trials. Curcumin has shown promise in such trials in race horses.
In humans, what sparked my interest in curcumin was after I attended a Mayo Clinic seminar in Internal Medicine. Mayo doesn't promote quackery.
They touted the potential benefits of turmeric, of which curcumin is said to be the active ingredient.
Years back, because of rather weak scientific evidence of efficacy in humans, everyone in medicine jumped on the Glucosamine/chondroitin bandwagon and started recommending it. Subsequently it was shown not to be beneficial to any significant extent in humans...thanks to clinical trials.
My point is that saying we should not investigate these things because of the "added cost" is a cop out. I don't buy it, and neither should you, particularly if it's going to cost $250 a month.
Edited by Bear 2015-09-10 10:31 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Bear - 2015-09-10 10:29 AM I'm not suggesting this stuff should be FDA approved. I'm a stickler when I read claims that something has ostensibly been "scientifically proven". I take that claim seriously....not at face value. When I'm considering a product, particularly a costly one, I want to see how they arrive at the conclusion that the product they are peddling passes muster. I will take individual anecdotal claims under consideration, depending on that person's trustworthiness.....and I trust Herbie, but if it's expensive, I prefer more than that. Also, I don't place as much value on results in laboratory rats as I do in the "Gold Standard", specifically, double blind, randomized clinical trials. Curcumin has shown promise in such trials in race horses. In humans, what sparked my interest in curcumin was after I attended a Mayo Clinic seminar in Internal Medicine. Mayo doesn't promote quackery. They touted the potential benefits of turmeric, of which curcumin is said to be the active ingredient. Years back, because of rather weak scientific evidence of efficacy in humans, everyone in medicine jumped on the Glucosamine/chondroitin bandwagon and started recommending it. Subsequently it was shown not to be beneficial to any significant extent in humans...thanks to clinical trials. My point is that saying we should not investigate these things because of the "added cost" is a cop out. I don't buy it, and neither should you, particularly if it's going to cost $250 a month.
I agree. I did read his papers, and while they are published in a holistic veterinary medicine journal, the primary investigator is the creator of the supplement, and the paper deals with the specific supplement at hand, which he is selling. That is a huge conflict of interest, and probably prohibits publication in most veterinary journals.
I would love to see some research done by an independent firm on this product, or any curcumin product, in horses. Research establishing standard dosages would prevent waste or possible harm from overdosing (see http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/91/2/476.full).
Overall I feel the product has promise, but I personally will take other routes to address any issues that might come up in my horse's health at this time due to the cost.
For those saying research is not neccessary- respectfully, I disagree. Research is simply investigation. It seeks to remove observer bias by using evidence that can be measured. I know I personally am apt to see something "working" if I have just spent money on it. There are plenty of studies that support the observer bias, if you are interested in this psychological phenomenon. Every procedure or supplement can benefit from research investigations (although their sales may not). Another important thing studies accomplish is to identify any possible drug interactions (as herbs are most certainly drugs), as well as indentifying any possible side effects that could occur from short or long term use.
I personally will try products if they are affordable and do not have significant research backing them- but when my horse is having no issues and this supplement costs more than his board, I tap out.
Currently, there is no real incentive for supplement companies to do clinicial trials as they have everything to lose and not much to gain, as the industry has few regulations. (The same goes for human supplements).
Herbie- I am really glad you found something that helped your horse. I know he was not doing well and you were nearing the end of your rope. I personally would not be averse to trying it if I was out of options (as you were), but the price point of 100+ or more a month is too much for me (when my horse is doing well on my current program, which is much less costly).
I do hope the company performs research and perhaps utilizes an independent firm. That would go a long way for me and would also open up the possibility for increasing efficacy of this product and clearly defining it's medicinal properties and biological pathways. My interest is piqued, but I'd like to see more. | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | So I have read the multiple studies my sister sent me and we had a discussion again about some of the effects of curcumin. She did say there are some studies showing benefits to multiple types of inflammation in the body from this material, which I pretty much was already aware of.
That being said, as she pointed out and Herbie too, it is not a very bioavailable type of natural product. She recommended purchasing therapeutic quality concentrated curcumin direct from a manufacturer, and yes, giving it with oil to make it more bioavailable.
From what I could see, it is part of the polyphenol class, and works primarily as an antioxidant (similar to substances in blueberries and green tea). Most of its anti-inflammatory properties seem to derive with its method of action that controls osmosis across cell walls and regulates AQP substances in the body.
However, she did note that most polyphenols act in a similar way, not just curcumin. One of the studies showed a worsening in cases of lupus among human patients so it can be dangerous in certain circumstances.
She said of all polyphenols, resveratrol is the best studied and most effective anti-inflammatory and can also be purchased in more concentrated form from manufacturers.
It should always be noted that herbal remedies of any sort do not always play well with other medications and have other things in them that can be toxic over time besides the active ingredient being targeted. A purified concentrated form from a human therapeutic level manufacturer is the best way to give such products.
I think Cur-Ost might be a good thing to try in some circumstances but like Bear, I'd be trying the concentrated curcumin, or maybe resveratrol, first. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | barrelracr131 - 2015-09-10 10:52 AM
Bear - 2015-09-10 10:29 AM I'm not suggesting this stuff should be FDA approved. I'm a stickler when I read claims that something has ostensibly been "scientifically proven". I take that claim seriously....not at face value. When I'm considering a product, particularly a costly one, I want to see how they arrive at the conclusion that the product they are peddling passes muster. I will take individual anecdotal claims under consideration, depending on that person's trustworthiness.....and I trust Herbie, but if it's expensive, I prefer more than that. Also, I don't place as much value on results in laboratory rats as I do in the "Gold Standard", specifically, double blind, randomized clinical trials. Curcumin has shown promise in such trials in race horses. In humans, what sparked my interest in curcumin was after I attended a Mayo Clinic seminar in Internal Medicine. Mayo doesn't promote quackery. They touted the potential benefits of turmeric, of which curcumin is said to be the active ingredient. Years back, because of rather weak scientific evidence of efficacy in humans, everyone in medicine jumped on the Glucosamine/chondroitin bandwagon and started recommending it. Subsequently it was shown not to be beneficial to any significant extent in humans...thanks to clinical trials. My point is that saying we should not investigate these things because of the "added cost" is a cop out. I don't buy it, and neither should you, particularly if it's going to cost $250 a month.
I agree. I did read his papers, and while they are published in a holistic veterinary medicine journal, the primary investigator is the creator of the supplement, and the paper deals with the specific supplement at hand, which he is selling. That is a huge conflict of interest, and probably prohibits publication in most veterinary journals.
I would love to see some research done by an independent firm on this product, or any curcumin product, in horses. Research establishing standard dosages would prevent waste or possible harm from overdosing (see http://toxsci.oxfordjournals.org/content/91/2/476.full).
Overall I feel the product has promise, but I personally will take other routes to address any issues that might come up in my horse's health at this time due to the cost.
For those saying research is not neccessary- respectfully, I disagree. Research is simply investigation. It seeks to remove observer bias by using evidence that can be measured. I know I personally am apt to see something "working" if I have just spent money on it. There are plenty of studies that support the observer bias, if you are interested in this psychological phenomenon. Every procedure or supplement can benefit from research investigations (although their sales may not). Another important thing studies accomplish is to identify any possible drug interactions (as herbs are most certainly drugs), as well as indentifying any possible side effects that could occur from short or long term use.
I personally will try products if they are affordable and do not have significant research backing them- but when my horse is having no issues and this supplement costs more than his board, I tap out.
Currently, there is no real incentive for supplement companies to do clinicial trials as they have everything to lose and not much to gain, as the industry has few regulations. (The same goes for human supplements).
Herbie- I am really glad you found something that helped your horse. I know he was not doing well and you were nearing the end of your rope. I personally would not be averse to trying it if I was out of options (as you were), but the price point of 100+ or more a month is too much for me (when my horse is doing well on my current program, which is much less costly).
I do hope the company performs research and perhaps utilizes an independent firm. That would go a long way for me and would also open up the possibility for increasing efficacy of this product and clearly defining it's medicinal properties and biological pathways. My interest is piqued, but I'd like to see more.
Very well stated. I agree.
This has been an excellent thread. I've learned a few things, and I hope others have as well. | |
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Expert
Posts: 5288
| I teach advanced placement psychology ( College level psychology, PhD. Student). And I am well aware of Observer bias. However, my horse was coughing uncontrollably before the use of this product and took forever to cool out after a run and get his "Air" back. After starting it, no cough, and less cool off time, no lameness, no need to use previcox daily or joint injections or ventipulman when he runs, I can't make that stuff up. I wish I could " Wish" it to happen at a much cheaper price.. lol | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | FLITASTIC - 2015-09-10 2:05 PM I teach advanced placement psychology ( College level psychology, PhD. Student). And I am well aware of Observer bias. However, my horse was coughing uncontrollably before the use of this product and took forever to cool out after a run and get his "Air" back. After starting it, no cough, and less cool off time, no lameness, no need to use previcox daily or joint injections or ventipulman when he runs, I can't make that stuff up. I wish I could " Wish" it to happen at a much cheaper price.. lol
I'm glad you found something that is working for your horses as you have been posting about problems for quite sometime.  | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | FLITASTIC - 2015-09-10 2:05 PM
I teach advanced placement psychology ( College level psychology, PhD. Student). And I am well aware of Observer bias. However, my horse was coughing uncontrollably before the use of this product and took forever to cool out after a run and get his "Air" back. After starting it, no cough, and less cool off time, no lameness, no need to use previcox daily or joint injections or ventipulman when he runs, I can't make that stuff up. I wish I could " Wish" it to happen at a much cheaper price.. lol
I believe you. What did you try before Cur Ost? We have a few horses with nagging coughs as well. | |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Let's see here. My horse is only 5 and I have been successfully "band-aiding" this issue since he was a yearling. Up until this past winter it was somewhat maintable, or so I thought, but he was a pickle to be around. We didn't call him Tricky Ricky for nothing. He was always ill mannered, hated to be brushed, cold backed, and just an overall jerk. He isn't like that anymore at all, so I now know he had other inflammatory issues going on beyond the allergies despite constantly being on an ulcer preventative or medication as well, which I also no longer need. My goal was not to list all of the products I have used specifically used that were ineffective, as I didn't want to step on anyone's toes here who may use or sell these products, but since you asked.
1.) Lung Aid - had the best success with this as far as diminishing allergy problems, he stayed on it while at the track as a 3 YO and he was on this product when he became so ill
2.) Silver Lining Resp Support - gave it 60 days with no improvement
3.) Wind Aid - used pre exercise to help open airways
4.) Some liquid stuff in a glass bottle that I heard about on here. Can't remember name - 30 days, conditions worsened, went back to Lung Aid
5.) Tri-Hist/Ani-Hist - No improvement
6.) THE Equine Edge custom blend - 60 days with no improvement, went back to Lung Aid, though I have used Equine Edge with Gastroplus an Muscle Mass in years past with improvement on other horses
7.) Ventipulmin - Doses as high as 8 cc per day
8.) Dexamethasone- Daily
9.) Two rounds of antibiotics (tucuprim)
10.) Prednisone injections
11.) Nebulizer for inhaled medications
12.) Mustard - showed improvement but not enough
13.) Equine Regen - 30 days with no improvement
12.) Cur-OST - complete turn around in 14 days, but I followed the suggestions of Dr. Schell to a T
Bear, I know you're an educated guy and I respect you and your practice, but please respect the fact that I, too, also have a great education, am a good business woman, and pride myself in being a dang good horse woman. No one has asked you to purchase this product, and yes, I agree it is expensive, and there is likely a good markup, as there should be and is with any company we buy from. I just can't put my finger on why you're trying so fervently to prove it isn't what this vet claims it to be. No one has asked you to purchase the product, no one has asked you to evaluate it, no one has even asked your opinion. Do you feel the need to try to save us money by offering another option? I appreciate that, I really do, and i've already looked into that on my own. Like I said, I have a full box of tumeric powder if anyone wants it. I did try it, and did get very minimal improvement, just not enough improvement to get me where I needed to be and get my horse out of distress. I didn't go into this blindly, I researched and studied each ingredient in the product, that is why I sound like a "paid advertisement" is because I have done my homework, not because i'm copying and pasting something i've heard someone else say. If I do copy and paste, I will quote that person and give them credit.
I'm not a self promotor, and I think most on here would agree that I don't get involved in the arguments or the debates that are often circulating, I don't like to stir the pot, i'm not all the time tooting about this or that, I don't do facebook because I don't like the drama, I just like to discuss things with my friends and share our experiences. I have to wonder if you chastise all feed/supplement companies you buy, or consider buying from with this banter, or if it's just the cost of the Cur-OST that's got you upset? I spent over $5000 in 3 months on vets in 2 different states along with medications prior to this, had custom formulas made from companies you've praised, and was at my wits end, so honestly I was relieved at the thought of the cost of the Total Support only.....eventually. It's all relative and to each his own here. There are certainly less costly ways to implement this program on a horse with no current issues, through the Green or cutting the Total in half, if one chose to do so.
I'm getting the feeling that you're a "It's my opinion and it should be yours" kind of guy, similar to my father, so it's important that you be right and there is no ending this until I (and others) concede. OK, you got it. I concede, despite the fact you have contradicted yourself on this thread. Bottom line, there may be a better way in a curcurmin blend, you're right, we're always leanring! But I have personally used the recommendation you've claimed is sufficient in this thread, and it's not even comparable. May be enough to sustain a horse with minimal inflammatory conditions, but will not improve a chronic issue enough to restore health.
You have taken the fun out of this discussion for me personally unfortunately and we can't even enjoy sharing anymore for your constant analyzation or every word we say, and that is unfortunate, as while this program may not be for you, it is for me and others are also seeing these same results. I admittedly thought maybe my horse was a fluke and it was a miracle, because I sure prayed for one daily, but now others are seeing the same dramatic improvements. I have my horse back, a horse who they said would surely never compete again and would likely not be able to sustain life if not improved, and you can bet i'm going to share that information with with anyone who will listen....and some that won't. That being said, I don't care what journal he's published in, I don't need to know the proprietary blend, I am satisfied with the research that has been done. Naive....maybe, but i'm one happy, happy customer.
With that, i'm out. Please excuse me while I sip on my snake oil and get back to my rotisserie cooker and slap chop.
Edited by Herbie 2015-09-10 4:42 PM
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