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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
  
| Game ready has been scientifically proven
Not sure if thermotex has been scientifically proven, but sauna's for humans to relieve muscle soreness
Back on track has the thermography studies to support their claims.
Magic cushion also has thermography studies to support their claims, my vet began using this product when I took a horse down with foot issues, and now he loves it
Pht has no studies to prove or disprove their product, pht states the anecdotal comments is enough and to reduce price they chose not to do studies
With any HA in oral form there is no way to scientifically prove it goes to the joint, but with that said, I still use lubrysin, and speaking to my vet, he says if the product does what they claim, it would be a great product. I have seen visual differences in my horses, no wind puffs, tighter legs, no signs of inflammation.
Sore no more clay I don't believe there are scientific studies done, but they are building off of historical studies with bentonite clay. Bentonite clay has been used and studied extensively in poulticing | |
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 Jr. Detective
 
Location: Beggs, OK | countrygirl2006 - 2015-09-02 11:39 AM Bibliafarm - 2015-09-01 10:28 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-09-01 3:35 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2015-09-01 12:49 PM I've had both of my most trusted vets tell me much the same. Wrapping legs (either with wraps or boots) causing more damage from heat build up, supplements pretty much worthless, and my first good vet was years and years ahead of the new deworming idea of over-medicating. She got me onto the once-a-year power pac followed in 6 weeks with ivermectin, and then a fecal count about this time of the year for one more follow up deworming. Both of these vets educated me on feeds and the nutritional and physiological needs of horses leading me to give up bagged products for the most part and rely on top quality hays.
Marketing is a wonderful thing, and an evil thing. I used to harp on the fear-mongering style that a few vendors use/d to sell THEIR products. I hate that. I also detest a marketer who uses guilt to drive us into thinking we NEED to provide this or that product else we are NEGLECTING our horses. Horses NEED -- food in the form of grass (any type/s including legumes), clean water supply, and shelter from the cold winds. Other than those three things it's all optional. What you say is true, in general...but does not apply when you are speaking of athletes.
Horses who are actually putting out effort and clocking in the higher divisions are going to tear themselves up. They require more care, more time, and more money spent to keep them competing. If you do not intend to strive for rodeo earnings or higher division placings then your horse will get along just fine and will actually back off to a level where he can take care of himself. You can give them hay, water, and shelter and haul them to barrel races with minimal conditioning and have fun.
Therapy products are designed to give those who push themselves an edge. They help keep a horse feeling their best. If you don't manage your own health, it's nearly impossible to know how much better your horse can feel when they have the proper energy, rest, and nutrition. Athletes care for their bodies, barrel horses are athletes and deserve the same consideration.
The alternative therapies that we use are simply taking the place of what we would have had to go to the vet for... Instead of Lactanayse to help with back soreness you put a MagnaCu sheet on, and instead of standing around with a water hose and making a mess in your barn you can put on a GameReady machine, or wrap with MagnaCu tendon wraps to reduce inflammation and swelling. Massage and chiropractics are still considered to be voodoo by many vets, but there are some vets that are becoming certified themselves because they see the benefit. One of the best surgeons in our area told me that he had seen first hand that an injury treated with a laser healed much faster and while he doesn't provide that service, he definitely recommends using one if you have it handy to speed healing time.
Alternative therapies are a non-invasive way to keep your horse feeling good and fresh. This cuts into the wallet of the vets that run their practices by sticking needles in the joints of every barrel horse that walks through the door. Yes, I absolutely believe that they give an edge. These therapy items do things for my horses that no amount of conditioning, nutrition, and "vet" care can do. Pharmaceuticals only go so far and vets rarely consider anything further than anti-inflammatories to help with muscle soreness.
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 Poor Cracker Girl
Posts: 12150
Location: Feeding mosquitos, FL | For me, "alternative therapies", (magnetic therapy, compression, etc.) are best for recovery, especially for horses that really use themselves and get sore.
I equate it with me. Muscles are muscles for the most part whether they're horse or human. I'm a runner who is prone to shin splints with wickedly out of balance hamstring/quad strength. This means my lower legs huuuurt if I've run a lot that week. My shins ache, my calves are rock hard and I hobble like an old lady. When that happens, I break out my compression socks, steal my mare's PHT hock wraps, wrap them around my lower legs, and park my behind on the couch and rest. The next morning, my muscles are looser and I can usually walk again. Without compression and magnets, it takes much longer. If it helps me that much, I would guess its helping my horses as well. | |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | rachellyn80 - 2015-09-03 10:58 AM
countrygirl2006 - 2015-09-02 11:39 AM Bibliafarm - 2015-09-01 10:28 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-09-01 3:35 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2015-09-01 12:49 PM I've had both of my most trusted vets tell me much the same. Â Wrapping legs (either with wraps or boots) causing more damage from heat build up, supplements pretty much worthless, and my first good vet was years and years ahead of the new deworming idea of over-medicating. Â She got me onto the once-a-year power pac followed in 6 weeks with ivermectin, and then a fecal count about this time of the year for one more follow up deworming. Â Both of these vets educated me on feeds and the nutritional and physiological needs of horses leading me to give up bagged products for the most part and rely on top quality hays.
Marketing is a wonderful thing, and an evil thing. Â I used to harp on the fear-mongering style that a few vendors use/d to sell THEIR products. Â I hate that. Â I also detest a marketer who uses guilt to drive us into thinking we NEED to provide this or that product else we are NEGLECTING our horses. Â Horses NEED -- food in the form of grass (any type/s including legumes), clean water supply, and shelter from the cold winds. Â Other than those three things it's all optional. Â What you say is true, in general...but does not apply when you are speaking of athletes.
Horses who are actually putting out effort and clocking in the higher divisions are going to tear themselves up. Â They require more care, more time, and more money spent to keep them competing. Â If you do not intend to strive for rodeo earnings or higher division placings then your horse will get along just fine and will actually back off to a level where he can take care of himself. Â You can give them hay, water, and shelter and haul them to barrel races with minimal conditioning and have fun.
Therapy products are designed to give those who push themselves an edge.  They help keep a horse feeling their best.  If you don't manage your own health, it's nearly impossible to know how much better your horse can feel when they have the proper energy, rest, and nutrition. Athletes care for their bodies, barrel horses are athletes and deserve the same consideration.
Alternative therapies are a non-invasive way to keep your horse feeling good and fresh. Â This cuts into the wallet of the vets that run their practices by sticking needles in the joints of every barrel horse that walks through the door. Â Yes, I absolutely believe that they give an edge. Â These therapy items do things for my horses that no amount of conditioning, nutrition, and "vet" care can do. Â Pharmaceuticals only go so far and vets rarely consider anything further than anti-inflammatories to help with muscle soreness. Â Â
And another thing, sometimes the vets learn as much from us, or we at least open their minds to the possibilities of "alternative" options. Take CC for instance, first time to UCD already knowing about the bladder stone, the surgery was basically a go. Then we found the kidney stones in the left kidney and because of those nether the vets nor my fiancé were really willing to even pursue the bladder surgery. I did the research figuring if I tried alternative meds that I stood a better shot at giving her a chance than if I just took her home and when the pain got to bad putting her down. Settled on the herbs and essential oils and BioScan treatments. When I called the vet back 5 months later and scheduled an appointment to have the kidneys looked at again he agreed to do that. His face when I walked her up to the ultrasound room was priceless!!! And so worth every panicked moment I had spent the previous 6 months and begging all of you for ideas and prayers. He said and I quote"OMG, she looks freaking AMAZING!!! Get her in here!!!" As soon as he saw that the two small stones that had been tucked in behind the large one in the bladder were gone, he said "hurry, lets get a shot of the kidneys!" I believe "Wow" came out of his mouth more than once when it showed 2 less stones in the left kidney and the one that had been in the uretor gone and the right kidney still free of stones.
As we waited for her to come out of the sedation to walk her back out he asked me again what I had been giving her and what therapies we had done.
I'd imagine she is one of the few horses ever to have on her release papers after surgery for the bladder to have written "continue Herb and Essential Oil Regimen and any other therapies that have been in place for the last 6 months as needed, along with dietary changes. Re-scope in 6 months". | |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| run n rate - 2015-09-02 1:34 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-09-03 10:58 AM countrygirl2006 - 2015-09-02 11:39 AM Bibliafarm - 2015-09-01 10:28 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-09-01 3:35 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2015-09-01 12:49 PM I've had both of my most trusted vets tell me much the same. Wrapping legs (either with wraps or boots) causing more damage from heat build up, supplements pretty much worthless, and my first good vet was years and years ahead of the new deworming idea of over-medicating. She got me onto the once-a-year power pac followed in 6 weeks with ivermectin, and then a fecal count about this time of the year for one more follow up deworming. Both of these vets educated me on feeds and the nutritional and physiological needs of horses leading me to give up bagged products for the most part and rely on top quality hays.
Marketing is a wonderful thing, and an evil thing. I used to harp on the fear-mongering style that a few vendors use/d to sell THEIR products. I hate that. I also detest a marketer who uses guilt to drive us into thinking we NEED to provide this or that product else we are NEGLECTING our horses. Horses NEED -- food in the form of grass (any type/s including legumes), clean water supply, and shelter from the cold winds. Other than those three things it's all optional. What you say is true, in general...but does not apply when you are speaking of athletes.
Horses who are actually putting out effort and clocking in the higher divisions are going to tear themselves up. They require more care, more time, and more money spent to keep them competing. If you do not intend to strive for rodeo earnings or higher division placings then your horse will get along just fine and will actually back off to a level where he can take care of himself. You can give them hay, water, and shelter and haul them to barrel races with minimal conditioning and have fun.
Therapy products are designed to give those who push themselves an edge. They help keep a horse feeling their best. If you don't manage your own health, it's nearly impossible to know how much better your horse can feel when they have the proper energy, rest, and nutrition. Athletes care for their bodies, barrel horses are athletes and deserve the same consideration.
Alternative therapies are a non-invasive way to keep your horse feeling good and fresh. This cuts into the wallet of the vets that run their practices by sticking needles in the joints of every barrel horse that walks through the door. Yes, I absolutely believe that they give an edge. These therapy items do things for my horses that no amount of conditioning, nutrition, and "vet" care can do. Pharmaceuticals only go so far and vets rarely consider anything further than anti-inflammatories to help with muscle soreness.
And another thing, sometimes the vets learn as much from us, or we at least open their minds to the possibilities of "alternative" options. Take CC for instance, first time to UCD already knowing about the bladder stone, the surgery was basically a go. Then we found the kidney stones in the left kidney and because of those nether the vets nor my fiancé were really willing to even pursue the bladder surgery. I did the research figuring if I tried alternative meds that I stood a better shot at giving her a chance than if I just took her home and when the pain got to bad putting her down. Settled on the herbs and essential oils and BioScan treatments. When I called the vet back 5 months later and scheduled an appointment to have the kidneys looked at again he agreed to do that. His face when I walked her up to the ultrasound room was priceless!!! And so worth every panicked moment I had spent the previous 6 months and begging all of you for ideas and prayers. He said and I quote"OMG, she looks freaking AMAZING!!! Get her in here!!!" As soon as he saw that the two small stones that had been tucked in behind the large one in the bladder were gone, he said "hurry, lets get a shot of the kidneys!" I believe "Wow" came out of his mouth more than once when it showed 2 less stones in the left kidney and the one that had been in the uretor gone and the right kidney still free of stones. As we waited for her to come out of the sedation to walk her back out he asked me again what I had been giving her and what therapies we had done. I'd imagine she is one of the few horses ever to have on her release papers after surgery for the bladder to have written "continue Herb and Essential Oil Regimen and any other therapies that have been in place for the last 6 months as needed, along with dietary changes. Re-scope in 6 months".
I agree that not every supplement is worthless and not every therapy is a waste of time and money. But sometimes they are. I've spent thousands and thousands treating two separate horses for 'issues.' Nothing worked on either one. One ended up with negative palmar angles in his rears and it was too late to stop his learned ducking behavior by the time this issue was found. My rocket mare just got retired after the Colonial National due to something that first made her duck the second barrel (and she started before I ever rode her), and now has her bucking around the same barrel, but as our first barrel now, and she concussed me on her third run at the Colonial. I have spent more thousands to try to find SOMETHING wrong with her, injected, supplemented, shot up with Adequan and Legend, and banamine and bute and Hyaluronic Acid. You name it, I tried it, for at least 90 days. Nothing has worked. So I base my opinion on personal experience. The first horse could have recovered and gone on as a great kids barrel horse (completely kid proof is that one) if we would have found the negative palmars earlier and done the corrective shoeing. But the second horse is the one that has shown me how many treatments or supplements have -0- effect. This mare has never taken a lame step. She's been x-rayed and ultrasounded by 3 different vets, one of which is a big sport horse specialist. She's been chiro'd and massaged, nothing has ever stopped her black heart from hurting me.
Also, sometimes one therapy or supplement will work for one horse but not another. I've used breating herbs on two different horses with the same issue. One it helped greatly, one it did nothing but make cough worse. I've fed supplements to horses side-by-side and seen results in one and not the other. It's a cr*pshoot. Even with 'scientific' methods. Some horses live full lives after colic surgery while another with a seemingly lesser colic surgery don't make it off the table.
Everyone has the right and option to choose whatever treatment or therapy they wish. I've spent enough now to not want to spend frivilously any more. I would rather spend it on good food and basic care for them.
As far as a 1D horse can't exist without tons of extraneous care - I disagree. I'm living with a 1D horse who has spend time in and on Barrel Horse News. He gets precious little in the was of extras. Never has. Also a 1D/2Der who gets the same precious little other than good food and conditioning. The only thing a barn-kept horse has going for it over a pasture-kept horse is better summer coat and shorter winter coat. IMO. | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | SKM - 2015-09-01 1:21 PM
 JMHO so take it or leave it. But alternative therapies take cash out of vets pockets. Very few vets are going to say certain things work because they are taught the drug end of things. A vet would much rather a client come to them for high dollar Adequen than admit some OTC joint supplement might actually work.
See and I've had vets tell me not to waste my money on adequan unless I just had extra money to throw at my horse | |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | coming from the vet's perspective, as a vet student.. this is what is going on:
Vets have a hard time suggesting anything they can't put solid proof on that it works. We're trained to look for evidence- through peer reviewed research, studies, publications, etc.. Anecdotal information only goes so far, and as vets, we have a lot at stake when we suggest a therapy or treatment. If your friend says, hey try such and such product for your horse, and it doesn't work- well, then its not a big deal you tried it. If a vet says, hey try this such and such product, and it doesn't work... then you hear: "my vet was just taking my money,", or "My vet doesn't know what he's talking about."
I would much rather my vet be cautious and tell me not to spend my money on something, than throw all those products at me because they know they can make extra money if they become a BOT dealer.
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 Saint Stacey
| casualdust07 - 2015-09-02 5:05 PM
SKM - 2015-09-01 1:21 PM
 JMHO so take it or leave it. But alternative therapies take cash out of vets pockets. Very few vets are going to say certain things work because they are taught the drug end of things. A vet would much rather a client come to them for high dollar Adequen than admit some OTC joint supplement might actually work.
See and I've had vets tell me not to waste my money on adequan unless I just had extra money to throw at my horse
 It was just an example I pulled out of the air. | |
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You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | SKM - 2015-09-02 6:13 PM
casualdust07 - 2015-09-02 5:05 PM
SKM - 2015-09-01 1:21 PM
 JMHO so take it or leave it. But alternative therapies take cash out of vets pockets. Very few vets are going to say certain things work because they are taught the drug end of things. A vet would much rather a client come to them for high dollar Adequen than admit some OTC joint supplement might actually work.
See and I've had vets tell me not to waste my money on adequan unless I just had extra money to throw at my horse It was just an example I pulled out of the air.
Gotcha!! And I agree, there are some out there who want your money.. Most of us really want to do whats right, but there are some that count the dollars. | |
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