Red Raider - 2015-11-29 8:37 PM


To say that the Civil War was fought over slavery is like the modern day version of saying the Iraq War was fought over oil.  For anybody who wished to really look further and ask their own questions, the answers are there from both viewpoints and the water runs much deeper than what shows on the surface. 

It is said that history is written by the victors of the battle and the Civil War is no different.  The North is usually painted in a more heroic, benevolent light while the South is villified with few reedeming qualities.  Seeing it in only that light, one would wonder why the North fought so hard to keep South as part of the Union -- surely they would want to cut them loose and disassociate from them on moral principles alone, right?  It would have been much easier and cost effective (in both money, resources and lives) to say adios and good luck on your new venture, right?    

If the North was so concerned for the slaves, why were they the last to actually free their own?  Lincoln used war powers to enact the Emancipation Proclamation against the Southern states only and that was actually done to keep them from being able to order slaves into their army.  He wanted to cripple the South by taking away an accessible population and further strain resources by basically creating a large class of refugees who had no where to go, no way of getting anywhere and no means to take care of themselves.  The only help the North gave was to basically tell the freed slaves that if they fought for the Union, they would be taken care of by the army but that was only if they were of "suitable condition" to fight.  Benevolent?  The North manipulated and used the slaves for their own purposes as pawns without the care and concern for most of them as humans, much less citizens of the Union.  The war was much more complicated than just slavery and freeing people.  

Much like the war, the history behind the Confederate Flag (as we call it in modern times, StreakySox eluded that it's true meaning is much more complex) and Southern Pride/Heritage can be either viewed in a simplistic sense or understood on a deeper level.  I think on some level, it's hard for people to understand how anybody who was against slavery, segregation and racism could actually feel pride or a connection to a culture who once supported all those things.  If you want a simple answer, there's really not one to that because the South was more than just slavery, segregation and racism.  Since the time our nation was formed, the United States has done some pretty shi*ty things to other people, places and nations.  Does that mean if you support the U.S. you support those things?  Most people would say "no" and could separate the concepts.  I don't understand why it's so hard to fathom that people feel the same way about the South when it comes to the issue of a flag and racism.

I do want to say that for the record, I grew up in a part of Texas where it's not uncommon to see the U.S., Texas and Confederate flags being flown together on people's front yards.  Not everybody who does so -- or has a Confederate flag towel, t-shirt, coozie, dog collar, truck sticker, etc. -- is a redneck or a racist.  Some actually do separate their pride in the South and for many (like my family), pride for their ancestors who fought in the war from the idea of slavery and racism.  

The greatest irony of all involving racism and the displaying of the flag is that at least the people who do "redneck" it up, make an a$$ of themselves and let their racism show are at least being up front with it.  If you believe that racism, sexism and 20 other forms of "-isms" are going away because as a society we are so evolved, you are totally deluding yourself!  On some level these issues will always be there -- the problems is that as a society, we are better about hiding our prejudices and passive-aggressively displaying them.  Google "Silent Racism" and you'll see that what's hidden is actually much worse than someone who doesn't try to hide or mask their true feelings.  Passing laws banning flags, removing monuments and shading how history is taught to our kids just helps hide the issues more.  In freedom there is truth -- whether we like it or not.
 

Red Raider - 2015-11-29 8:37 PM To say that the Civil War was fought over slavery is like the modern day version of saying the Iraq War was fought over oil.  For anybody who wished to really look further and ask their own questions, the answers are there from both viewpoints and the water runs much deeper than what shows on the surface. 



It is said that history is written by the victors of the battle and the Civil War is no different.  The North is usually painted in a more heroic, benevolent light while the South is villified with few reedeming qualities.  Seeing it in only that light, one would wonder why the North fought so hard to keep South as part of the Union -- surely they would want to cut them loose and disassociate from them on moral principles alone, right?  It would have been much easier and cost effective (in both money, resources and lives) to say adios and good luck on your new venture, right?    



If the North was so concerned for the slaves, why were they the last to actually free their own?  Lincoln used war powers to enact the Emancipation Proclamation against the Southern states only and that was actually done to keep them from being able to order slaves into their army.  He wanted to cripple the South by taking away an accessible population and further strain resources by basically creating a large class of refugees who had no where to go, no way of getting anywhere and no means to take care of themselves.  The only help the North gave was to basically tell the freed slaves that if they fought for the Union, they would be taken care of by the army but that was only if they were of "suitable condition" to fight.  Benevolent?  The North manipulated and used the slaves for their own purposes as pawns without the care and concern for most of them as humans, much less citizens of the Union.  The war was much more complicated than just slavery and freeing people.  



Much like the war, the history behind the Confederate Flag (as we call it in modern times, StreakySox eluded that it's true meaning is much more complex) and Southern Pride/Heritage can be either viewed in a simplistic sense or understood on a deeper level.  I think on some level, it's hard for people to understand how anybody who was against slavery, segregation and racism could actually feel pride or a connection to a culture who once supported all those things.  If you want a simple answer, there's really not one to that because the South was more than just slavery, segregation and racism.  Since the time our nation was formed, the United States has done some pretty shi*ty things to other people, places and nations.  Does that mean if you support the U.S. you support those things?  Most people would say "no" and could separate the concepts.  I don't understand why it's so hard to fathom that people feel the same way about the South when it comes to the issue of a flag and racism.



I do want to say that for the record, I grew up in a part of Texas where it's not uncommon to see the U.S., Texas and Confederate flags being flown together on people's front yards.  Not everybody who does so -- or has a Confederate flag towel, t-shirt, coozie, dog collar, truck sticker, etc. -- is a redneck or a racist.  Some actually do separate their pride in the South and for many (like my family), pride for their ancestors who fought in the war from the idea of slavery and racism.  



The greatest irony of all involving racism and the displaying of the flag is that at least the people who do "redneck" it up, make an a$$ of themselves and let their racism show are at least being up front with it.  If you believe that racism, sexism and 20 other forms of "-isms" are going away because as a society we are so evolved, you are totally deluding yourself!  On some level these issues will always be there -- the problems is that as a society, we are better about hiding our prejudices and passive-aggressively displaying them.  Google "Silent Racism" and you'll see that what's hidden is actually much worse than someone who doesn't try to hide or mask their true feelings.  Passing laws banning flags, removing monuments and shading how history is taught to our kids just helps hide the issues more.  In freedom there is truth -- whether we like it or not.

 

SG. - 2015-11-29 9:13 PM And as usual you gave an excellent history lesson and I thank you 

kwanatha - 2015-11-29 7:26 PM

there is more than one way to see that:
i saw sneeky as the minority because in the horse world whites are. i know my horses were weird to my white horse at first and yes he was a pill LOL

anyway the majority put up with the shenangans of the minority then one day said NO MORE
 

komet. - 2015-11-28 8:02 PM The only reason lynching is a federal crime is because a lot of lawmakers were worried about winding up at the end of that rope!! (which is where most of them need to be)

bennie1 - 2015-11-28 8:04 PM


What a ridiculous analogy.

CJE - 2015-11-30 10:21 AM


And I am glad I am not one of ole Finney's barrel mares no matter the color........seems to me she is fond of just dumping them when she is finished with them..........how sad..........

rachellyn80 - 2015-11-30 10:08 AM


Her post was a copy and paste exerpt from The Huffington Post... These are not original thoughts, and are likely to be embarassing to her once she is older and has a little more life experience.  This has been spoonfed to many young people who have not explored history beyond what they have been told by liberal educators.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/confederate-flag-racist_n_7639788.html
 

Bear - 2015-11-28 8:12 PM

This evil lop-eared bastard we have now seizes upon every opportunity to see the seeds of misery, strife, malaise, and division. He has taken every opportunity to divide us, both amongst ourselves here at home in the US and around the globe as well. You name it....Race, gender, class, ethnicity, and religion.

oija - 2015-11-30 10:59 AM Red Raider gave a great history lesson. However, I do think we need a little more balance on this thread. First of all, the rebel flag (thankfully the name of the OP has changed) is NOT THE CONFEDERATE FLAG. It's a battle flag. But it's a popular one to fly. This IS an actual flag of the Confederacy (there were a couple though). All that being said, when someone chooses to fly the Battle Jack they are doing so for a number of reasons. One is Southern Pride, but yes, inescapably, a number of other groups who ARE STRONGLY RACIST also fly this flag. What does that mean for anyone who chooses to fly it? It means they need to be honest with themselves. They may fly it for reasons of southern pride, but others may associate it with racism. The complex and combined symbolisms are inescapable. And a good number of people on this board are either a) from the south or b) from a rural area. Both of which tend to be conservative and white. Thus we don't have much of a representation of the other view of this flag. But it exists. So everyone can scream about people just getting their panties in a wad, political correctness, whatever, but this flag does mean racism to some people, not all people but some. The original Latin terminology for a black person was 'negro' which only means black. They also called black people, 'boy.' Neither of those terms is offensive in the original but became offensive through later association and the ways they were used. The word 'faggot' in Anglo-Saxon simply means 'small stick to use as firewood.' But obviously it has a new meaning now. We cannot escape these new meanings and symbols no matter how much we scream, 'but it's just southern pride.' They are associated with prejudice. Some people knowingly adopt those prejudices; some just do because that's what their neighbors are doing. That being said, I'm a big fan of freedom of speech. Anyone should have the right to fly this flag if they so choose, whatever the reason. But IF you fly it, put it on your vehicle, etc., BE INFORMED AND BE AWARE that YES it can symbolize southern pride but it ALSO symbolizes racism.

FearTheRedPaint - 2015-11-30 1:38 PM

I simply posted this because of what ive been told and educated on. Thats why i said if you would like to further educate me on this topic, i would be happy to listen. I only saw it as a racism thing becuase of only the negative things and what people had told me. When i learned about the Civil War in school they mostly taught us that it was a racism thing. That is why i asked what the political views of it were. i want to know the hard facts of what happened. And if i still do have a opinion of thats racist its is simply my bussiness and we have the freedom to have our own opinions:) Am i gonna bash everyone who honors the flag? HECK NO! i accept everybody for what they are. BUT its different when people who have rebel flags and whatnot bash my for  not liking it or make fun of me or call me stupid for not honoring Southern heritage and pride THEN i have a problem with it. But today alot of people dont even hang the flag to represent the Southern heritage and bein proud, they just have it becuase its "cool" but dont even actually "honor or present" the flag. Some are simply idiots and hang on the back of their trucks and act like wild studs that need to be tamed and taught to act right. At my Highschool Rodeos i hate to say this but about %80 of the boys(not Men lol ) have the flag hanging and theyre drinkng, being loud, spooking the horses, cursing infront of little kids, and ultimately giving "Southerners" A bad repuatation. Those boys use the flag as an excuse....Just my opinion. Everybody is entitled to there own opinion. I repsect that

wyoming barrel racer - 2015-11-30 2:56 PM I'm hoping you have taken some of what really happened with the Civil War from this post. Then you will have totally redeemed yourself lol There are stupid people everywhere you go, it's too bad they are doing that at the HS rodeos. Around here they kept pretty tight rules on the drinking.