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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
   
Location: North Dakota | hammer_time - 2015-12-19 8:31 AM CanCan - 2015-12-18 5:09 PM cavyrunsbarrels - 2015-12-17 12:47 PM Well personally I've fed oats to 3 horses of varying temperments (including VERY VERY high strung) and it's never made any of them hot in the slightest. My current program is 4lbs oats, 6lbs alfalfa pellets, 1lb Renew Gold, flax supplement, a couple handfuls soaked beet pulp, and unlimited grass hay. I'm down to one horse but this hasn't made him hot and he is really filled out and shiny like a new penny even though it's cold and snowy here and the other horses look like fluff monsters. You got to be kidding!!!!! I have two on 3 cups of RG a day. They are tubby. Old man gets a coffee can of SC twice a day. I never realized how much some people fed. Mine got tubby on HALF lb RG (1.5 cups )!
I didn't think I fed that much... Especially considering Cash is a BIG guy and is ridden consistently year round. And he lives in a dry lot so doesn't get to graze at all. But this is working for him. He looks and feels amazing. |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| winwillows - 2015-12-17 4:05 PM
FLITASTIC - 2015-12-17 1:49 PM
RoaniePonie11 - 2015-12-17 10:54 AM
go moderate protein, high fat and low starch. Probiotics and digestive enzymes to make sure the horse is absorbing everything like it should.
We are finding now that there is an over use of Pre and Pro biotics. Its actually doing the opposite they are designed for. Horses should be getting all their live gut bacteria from the natural foods they eat. All of the added ones in commercial feeds are leading to bacterial over growth and uneven bacterial species populations in the hind gut. This leads to inflammation. Inflammation leads to lameness issues, allergies, immune system and digestive issues.
You are right on this. I often tell people that the best result is not from adding more bacteria to the hind gut. The best result is to quit killing the naturally occurring ones that are there. Most probiotics do not provide much in the way of viable beneficial bacteria that actually make it to the hind gut in the first place. Those that do make it are not the right ones in the right ratios in which they naturally are found. I use a prebiotic to support existing natural ratios, and personally feel that this is a better solution. There can be a place for a probiotic to be used short term after surgery, colic, or other major disruption to the hind gut. In this case, even a little help may aid in jump starting the system. On a daily basis, however, if you need to keep reintroducing bacteria to get the hind gut to work, you have serious disruption that needs to be fixed with better feed management.
So what is a good PRE biotic? I've been feeding fastrack to my horses I believe that's just a probiotic though. |
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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | A lot of hard keepers won't eat enough of even the best hay to stay fat. So feeding straight hay may not be an option. Too, a lot of hard keepers are picky eaters so you have to go with what they'll eat, not necessarily what you think they have to have. My old appendix horse & the OTTB that I have now are true examples of that!
Vets will tell you that beet pulp does not make a horse hot but every horse I've had on even a little bit of it have been hot. I have a friend who has trained some of the best horses in the country and he finally decided to try it to stretch his hay -- I'd been telling him for years, lol -- and he noticed a difference right away too.
I tried putting the OTTB that I have on low starch because of his enery levels, and ulcers. He wouldn't stay on it. I've found some horses can't tolerate premix feeds, or beet pulp (non molassas included) , or molassas so I put him on straight oats & barley. He's flourished on it. He gets whole oats, a small amount of rolled barley, plain rice bran, Remission (supplement with magnesium, etc) a little bit of Chaffhaye, 3 pounds of alfalfa, and all the grass hay he'll eat. He's a rehab project that had a lot of interest from a couple of top sponsored event riders but he was too hot and sensitive.... The picture below is him yesterday afternoon when I rode him bareback with a rope halter in the round pen.
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | want2chase3 - 2015-12-20 12:00 PM
winwillows - 2015-12-17 4:05 PM
FLITASTIC - 2015-12-17 1:49 PM
RoaniePonie11 - 2015-12-17 10:54 AM
go moderate protein, high fat and low starch. Probiotics and digestive enzymes to make sure the horse is absorbing everything like it should.
We are finding now that there is an over use of Pre and Pro biotics. Its actually doing the opposite they are designed for. Horses should be getting all their live gut bacteria from the natural foods they eat. All of the added ones in commercial feeds are leading to bacterial over growth and uneven bacterial species populations in the hind gut. This leads to inflammation. Inflammation leads to lameness issues, allergies, immune system and digestive issues.
You are right on this. I often tell people that the best result is not from adding more bacteria to the hind gut. The best result is to quit killing the naturally occurring ones that are there. Most probiotics do not provide much in the way of viable beneficial bacteria that actually make it to the hind gut in the first place. Those that do make it are not the right ones in the right ratios in which they naturally are found. I use a prebiotic to support existing natural ratios, and personally feel that this is a better solution. There can be a place for a probiotic to be used short term after surgery, colic, or other major disruption to the hind gut. In this case, even a little help may aid in jump starting the system. On a daily basis, however, if you need to keep reintroducing bacteria to get the hind gut to work, you have serious disruption that needs to be fixed with better feed management.
So what is a good PRE biotic? I've been feeding fastrack to my horses I believe that's just a probiotic though.
We include a proprietary prebiotic in Renew Gold. If you are looking for one to add to your current program the easiest one to get would be FORCO. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I Personally dont use beet pulp to stretch hay.. I feed it to put more fluid in gut and it helps keep digestive system clean.. I have used it also to feed to hard keepers and older horses.. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Missouri | we have a hard keeper and last year he got pretty stressed and was moved and did not take the move well at all.....so he looked like crap! ... we put him on safe choice Senior (he is a 7 year old), started him on Animal Element detox and he was on really good pasture 24/7. after about 6 weeks he had but on so much wiehgt and muscle I had to decrease his feed. I really think one the Animal Element cleaned his gut and then he was able to absorb what he needed. I am hoping he will not be the hard keeper we thought he was! It has been about 5 months and he still looks and feels great! |
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Location: Great Places Great Faces | Renew gold has been a blessing for my hot yet hard to keep weight on mare 
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| another has been - 2015-12-21 2:54 PM
we have a hard keeper and last year he got pretty stressed and was moved and did not take the move well at all.....so he looked like crap! ... we put him on safe choice Senior (he is a 7 year old), started him on Animal Element detox and he was on really good pasture 24/7. after about 6 weeks he had but on so much wiehgt and muscle I had to decrease his feed. I really think one the Animal Element cleaned his gut and then he was able to absorb what he needed. I am hoping he will not be the hard keeper we thought he was! It has been about 5 months and he still looks and feels great!
that has been my experience when I fed AE also. |
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Duct Tape Bikini Girl
Posts: 2554
| Straight alfalfa |
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Folks on-line