|
|
 Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
  
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Bear - 2016-03-09 4:01 PM C'mon now. Let's be honest here. This was a very hostile, volatile environment. The cops had them surrounded with guns drawn. Obviously they all knew he carried weapons all the time in the past, including in a shoulder holster. He exits the vehicle and raises his arms, and then reaches with his right hand toward his left chest. These cops don't have time to analyze and estimate the odds of him reaching for his weapon. They have a fraction of a second to react. That's how they are trained. Now, if LaVoy was shot before he made that reach, that's another thing. In that case he was executed and there's no excuse. If they shot him after he made the move, then that was LaVoy's fatal mistake. Even so, I don't understand why they couldn't have stayed behind cover, guns drawn, and diffused the situation. They had the man and the occupants of the Vehicle trapped. They weren't going anywhere. The key is finding out definitively whether or not he was shot before making the move. Verbal "taunting" is no justification to shoot a man like a dog.
Who made it hostile & volatile? There were shots fired before Lavoy was killed...the one through the roof as he was exiting the vehicle was likely meant to be a head shot! What about the ones fired as they came around the blind corner? And the first shot when they stopped the first time?
Lavoy was keenly aware that he was a dead man. And he was pi****. I would have been, too, and can easily see myself & everyone I know acting about the same way...shoot me or let me go!
I also still firmly believe that it was supposed to be a 'shoot out'...the cops fully expected return fire which would have justified killing all of them.
|
|
| |
|
Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | This interview is well worth watching to the end.
http://katu.com/news/local/jailhouse-interview-ammon-bundy-says-governments-story-is-unraveling
|
|
| |
|
 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
 
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Bear - 2016-03-09 5:01 PM C'mon now. Let's be honest here. This was a very hostile, volatile environment. The cops had them surrounded with guns drawn. Obviously they all knew he carried weapons all the time in the past, including in a shoulder holster. He exits the vehicle and raises his arms, and then reaches with his right hand toward his left chest. These cops don't have time to analyze and estimate the odds of him reaching for his weapon. They have a fraction of a second to react. That's how they are trained. Now, if LaVoy was shot before he made that reach, that's another thing. In that case he was executed and there's no excuse. If they shot him after he made the move, then that was LaVoy's fatal mistake. Even so, I don't understand why they couldn't have stayed behind cover, guns drawn, and diffused the situation. They had the man and the occupants of the Vehicle trapped. They weren't going anywhere. The key is finding out definitively whether or not he was shot before making the move. Verbal "taunting" is no justification to shoot a man like a dog.
But the problem is they should have never been ambushed in the first place. He was one his way to the sheriff and everything could have been ended there but they didn't want him to make it to the sheriffs. I'm usually 99% on the side of LEO's as I am married to a retired Sargeant. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 962
| Bear - 2016-03-09 5:01 PM
C'mon now. Let's be honest here. This was a very hostile, volatile environment. The cops had them surrounded with guns drawn. Obviously they all knew he carried weapons all the time in the past, including in a shoulder holster. He exits the vehicle and raises his arms, and then reaches with his right hand toward his left chest. These cops don't have time to analyze and estimate the odds of him reaching for his weapon. They have a fraction of a second to react. That's how they are trained.
Now, if LaVoy was shot before he made that reach, that's another thing. In that case he was executed and there's no excuse. If they shot him after he made the move, then that was LaVoy's fatal mistake. Even so, I don't understand why they couldn't have stayed behind cover, guns drawn, and diffused the situation. They had the man and the occupants of the Vehicle trapped. They weren't going anywhere. The key is finding out definitively whether or not he was shot before making the move. Verbal "taunting" is no justification to shoot a man like a dog.
Again, go to Www.oregonlive.com, watch the press conference. The man closest to him was trying to get close enough to taser him, and on the third reach into his coat, they shot him to protect the cop with the taser, end of story. It has video, pictures, state patrol, etc. even video by the dits in the back see who"saw the whole thing" on the floor of the pickup. He was unhinged, and running around with the rest of the malcontents sent him over the edge. It's just lucky he didn't get somebody else killed. |
|
| |
|
 To the Left
Posts: 1865
Location: Florida | He was on his way to a rally not to talk to law enforcement. He had a gun and he had said on TV he would not be taken alive. What about this situation do you think was reassuring to the law enforcement who were trying to end this stand off? I have seen the video and it is clear he made a move that could be construed as dangerous. |
|
| |
|
 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | If he knew he was a dead man, why did he haul women and kids with him? No matter what he knew, or feared, why did he haul them into that hornet's nest? He put those people in harm's way. I don't get that.
Also, the key to this is whether or not he was shot before he reached in his coat. |
|
| |
|
  Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-03-09 5:55 PM Bear - 2016-03-09 5:01 PM C'mon now. Let's be honest here. This was a very hostile, volatile environment. The cops had them surrounded with guns drawn. Obviously they all knew he carried weapons all the time in the past, including in a shoulder holster. He exits the vehicle and raises his arms, and then reaches with his right hand toward his left chest. These cops don't have time to analyze and estimate the odds of him reaching for his weapon. They have a fraction of a second to react. That's how they are trained. Now, if LaVoy was shot before he made that reach, that's another thing. In that case he was executed and there's no excuse. If they shot him after he made the move, then that was LaVoy's fatal mistake. Even so, I don't understand why they couldn't have stayed behind cover, guns drawn, and diffused the situation. They had the man and the occupants of the Vehicle trapped. They weren't going anywhere. The key is finding out definitively whether or not he was shot before making the move. Verbal "taunting" is no justification to shoot a man like a dog. Again, go to Www.oregonlive.com, watch the press conference. The man closest to him was trying to get close enough to taser him, and on the third reach into his coat, they shot him to protect the cop with the taser, end of story. It has video, pictures, state patrol, etc. even video by the dits in the back see who"saw the whole thing" on the floor of the pickup. He was unhinged, and running around with the rest of the malcontents sent him over the edge. It's just lucky he didn't get somebody else killed.
Malcontents eh? And please explain just what You think of
The Patriots who fought in The Revolutionary War to secure Your Current Freedom to Protest or Rebel against an overreaching Government?
The more You post, the more I am convinced You are a petty and jealous individual.
In Revolutionary Times You would be have been identified as a 'Tory'!know You understand U.S. History well to know what 'that' is. |
|
| |
|
Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Just discovered that roadblocks (in Oregon are unConstitional per The State Supreme Court) since 1987. So the Feds were conduction illegal operations to begin with. Also The County Sheriff has/had jurisdiction not The FBI or BlM! |
|
| |
|
Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Bear - 2016-03-09 6:15 PM If he knew he was a dead man, why did he haul women and kids with him? No matter what he knew, or feared, why did he haul them into that hornet's nest? He put those people in harm's way. I don't get that. Also, the key to this is whether or not he was shot before he reached in his coat.
By the time he realized that he was a 'dead man' they'd already been shot at...multiple times. I'm very certain that they all felt secure in their 'lawfulness'. And still do.
The fbi would not have released ANYTHING if they thought they couldn't skew it to their favor...or confuse the facts. I think it's important to look at the character of the individuals involved...including the mercenaries, the hired guns. Figure it out! It's not that complicated.
|
|
| |
|
 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | The new Video from the cell phone inside the car was a eye changer for me. I do believe it started out wrong on his part but the way it was handled the fbis part was Murder . I was literally scared for them in the vehicle while it was happening..Their voices were shaking..it escaulated further then they anticipated and put them in that situation yes their actions put them there BUT it was not handled properly.. IMHO.. I was one doubting it was murder.. until I watched and listened to the cell phone video.. of the ladies IN the suv up until they exited vehicle. |
|
| |
|
Location: Not Where I Want to Be | lwagner - 2016-03-09 2:36 PM I am sick and tired of people blaming teachers for every little thing that they feel is wrong with society today. Are you a teacher? Have you ever been a teacher? If not, you dont know what the HE!! you are talking about. Just because you were a student doesnt mean you know what it is like to be a teacher. I use plumbing everyday but am not an expert on plumbing! I have been a medical patient several times over the years but I dont feel as though I am qualified to judge a medical professional. Shame on you for not appreciating our teachers!
You can have the most noble intentions and if you are part of a crap organization(public education)you will still smell bad at the end of the day.
|
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Vickie - 2016-03-09 7:31 PM He was on his way to a rally not to talk to law enforcement. He had a gun and he had said on TV he would not be taken alive. What about this situation do you think was reassuring to the law enforcement who were trying to end this stand off? I have seen the video and it is clear he made a move that could be construed as dangerous.
I agree with this.. but the way it was handled after they shot him was wrong. They continued to blast into the vehicle.. shot after shot.. the cell phone video shows that. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 962
| Bibliafarm - 2016-03-10 7:37 AM
Vickie - 2016-03-09 7:31 PM He was on his way to a rally not to talk to law enforcement.  He had a gun and he had said on  TV he would not be taken alive.  What about this situation do you think was reassuring to the law enforcement who were trying to end this stand off?  I have seen the video and it is clear he made a move that could be construed as dangerous.
I agree with this.. but the way it was handled after they shot him was wrong. They continued to blast into the vehicle.. shot after shot.. the cell phone video shows that.Â
You know there were only eight shots from guns, right? Three hit the truck as it was barreling towards the roadblock, three hit Finicum, and two fired by FBI. The "shots" hitting the truck after Finicum was shot were Flashbangs to convince the rest to surrender.
If you watch the easy to understand press conference, with pictures for the slow learners, it explains in detail what took place.
It's unfortunate for you that the evidence matches the police report, but that's life, honey. Watch the press conference again and try to listen closely this time.
|
|
| |
|
Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-03-10 9:40 AM Bibliafarm - 2016-03-10 7:37 AM Vickie - 2016-03-09 7:31 PM He was on his way to a rally not to talk to law enforcement. He had a gun and he had said on TV he would not be taken alive. What about this situation do you think was reassuring to the law enforcement who were trying to end this stand off? I have seen the video and it is clear he made a move that could be construed as dangerous. I agree with this.. but the way it was handled after they shot him was wrong. They continued to blast into the vehicle.. shot after shot.. the cell phone video shows that. You know there were only eight shots from guns, right? Three hit the truck as it was barreling towards the roadblock, three hit Finicum, and two fired by FBI. The "shots" hitting the truck after Finicum was shot were Flashbangs to convince the rest to surrender. If you watch the easy to understand press conference, with pictures for the slow learners, it explains in detail what took place. It's unfortunate for you that the evidence matches the police report, but that's life, honey. Watch the press conference again and try to listen closely this time.
First of all Im not a slow learner.. second of all.. The cell phone video paints a differant picture.. I always felt lavoy was in the wrong.. the feds were in a situation to do whats right and safe.. but the end was not right .. it was handled wrong in my "slow" thinking.. to continue to blast whatever to the girls screaming stop is wrong in my "slow" way of thinking.. the whole situation esculated.. I nor You were there so i assume it was a frantic situation..
again... thanks for your input and condescending ways. god bless .. |
|
| |
|
Nicknameless
Posts: 4565
Location: I can see the end of the world from here! | Remember that when it was first reported it was reported as a 'shoot out', the police said Lavoy 'charged' them..they denied any shots had been fired until Lavoy went for a gun. They've now had a month & a half to 'firm up' their story and try to match it to the video and witness accounts.
Bottom line is that the governor & state reps, & who knows who else, wanted to stop the "spread of the virus"...the teaching of the Constitution & Bill of Rights.
Those were 'hired guns' in the trees. Blackstone. Mercenaries.
They don't get called in to 'threaten' anyone...they were also at the Bundy Ranch in 2014 when the public got involved...why? OH yeah...I'd bet we could go back right here on BHW and see where it escalated due to the '1st Amendment Zone' that the fed created...it wasn't Cliven or anyone else who did the 'call for help'...however, they did need it or there would have been an entire family murdered then along with the killing of their cattle.
What is more sick than the government doing this are the people who support them.
|
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1898
| FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-03-10 8:40 AM
Bibliafarm - 2016-03-10 7:37 AM
Vickie - 2016-03-09 7:31 PM He was on his way to a rally not to talk to law enforcement.  He had a gun and he had said on  TV he would not be taken alive.  What about this situation do you think was reassuring to the law enforcement who were trying to end this stand off?  I have seen the video and it is clear he made a move that could be construed as dangerous.
I agree with this.. but the way it was handled after they shot him was wrong. They continued to blast into the vehicle.. shot after shot.. the cell phone video shows that.Â
You know there were only eight shots from guns, right? Three hit the truck as it was barreling towards the roadblock, three hit Finicum, and two fired by FBI. The "shots" hitting the truck after Finicum was shot were Flashbangs to convince the rest to surrender.
If you watch the easy to understand press conference, with pictures for the slow learners, it explains in detail what took place.
It's unfortunate for you that the evidence matches the police report, but that's life, honey. Watch the press conference again and try to listen closely this time.
Says who? The government, to justify their story? What about the shot that was fired AS SOON AS Finicum stepped out of the vehicle with his hands up, that blew out the side glass? Was that one counted? And now we find out that "oops, guess the FBI did fire shots... gee, we're really sorry we didn't report that. " How many other shots were not reported? This whole thing stinks to high heaven to me.
Stopping them in a section that had no cell service? Yeah, I am sure that was coincidental as well.
Finicum should have never exited the vehicle. By doing so he knew **** good and well he had just signed his death warrant. They wanted to make sure he would never speak again. How long did he lay in the snow before they approached him? They wanted no chance of him living through it. It is my opinion now and has always been that they wanted the protest to end and knew by killing the most articulate of the group, their spokesman, it would be resolved. They made an example out of him. |
|
| |
|
Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | FinneyQuarterHorses - 2016-03-10 8:40 AM
Bibliafarm - 2016-03-10 7:37 AM
Vickie - 2016-03-09 7:31 PM He was on his way to a rally not to talk to law enforcement.  He had a gun and he had said on  TV he would not be taken alive.  What about this situation do you think was reassuring to the law enforcement who were trying to end this stand off?  I have seen the video and it is clear he made a move that could be construed as dangerous.
I agree with this.. but the way it was handled after they shot him was wrong. They continued to blast into the vehicle.. shot after shot.. the cell phone video shows that.Â
You know there were only eight shots from guns, right? Three hit the truck as it was barreling towards the roadblock, three hit Finicum, and two fired by FBI. The "shots" hitting the truck after Finicum was shot were Flashbangs to convince the rest to surrender.
If you watch the easy to understand press conference, with pictures for the slow learners, it explains in detail what took place.
It's unfortunate for you that the evidence matches the police report, but that's life, honey. Watch the press conference again and try to listen closely this time.
And since You believe the Press Conference as presented by The Feds (who can do no wrong in your eyes) I suppose You believe The Fairy Godmother too????????????????????
I have some ocean front property in Arizona I will sell you real cheap. |
|
| |
|
Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | I believe the reason The MSM has not covered this event or the Bundy Event in Nevada is multi faceted. 1) The reporters are deathly scared of The Clinton Organization due to history. 2) A. Exposing what is really going on does not fit their agenda and B. would most likely expose their complicity thereby puttting the MSM out of business. |
|
| |
|
Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | Research is fun! And enlightening. Just as soon as I started 'looking into' this event, I realized it was BAD! Everyone connected with the Feds in this scenario is tainted in one fashion or another! |
|
| |
|
Semper Fi
Location: North Texas | I finally got to read the autopsy. An exit wound under the left FRONT nipple indicates (to me) that LaVoy Fincium was shot from behind. Which is murder! Or in this event assination! |
|
| |
Folks on-line