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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
  
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | I feel really silly asking this question but I need to think outside my box... I am having an issue with a horse I'm riding--quite green yet...but horse has been allowed--or never taught right--to throw it's nose up and evade pressure. I avoid using things like martingales, but I had to put one on this horse. I've worked and worked on getting horse broke in it's face and softened up, and teaching that throwing your face UP is not the answer... We are making great progress. Until we whoa. Then horse throws it's head down between it's knees and yanks on me...then half panics and throws it's head up, almost dashboarding me. It's very irritating, and all my work on softening horse's poll and face and getting off the front end seem to be working against me in getting this horse to stay in it's bridle and stop with it's body and butt, not on it's face. Just looking for ideas. Horse is scheduled to get teeth done, and maybe that will help, but I'm sure I will have to work on it somehow. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
 
| I am not a tie down fan, but I have used one for horses just like you describe. Even with a martingale they can still get their nose up.. Maybe put a loose tie down on so that way you can focus on other parts of the training process but the horse won't be able to just flip their head up. And of course, rule out teeth problems by having those checked. | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | What type of bit do you have on him now? I'm no expert but sometimes some bits will cause problems, I had one that would always root his nose pulling the reins out of my hands sometimes, I had to do some switching around with bits untill I found one that he dont do this mess anymore and getting his teeth done helped alot to because he had blind wolf teeth. | |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Southtxponygirl - 2017-03-03 11:31 AM
What type of bit do you have on him now? I'm no expert but sometimes some bits will cause problems, I had one that would always root his nose pulling the reins out of my hands sometimes, I had to do some switching around with bits untill I found one that he dont do this mess anymore and getting his teeth done helped alot to because he had blind wolf teeth.
A locked ring Carolina snaffle with a copper wrapped mouth with a lifesaver (that's a mouth-ful, LOL). I have the same bit in just a twisted wire I could try, or a tender touch. I should have a dog-bone twisted wire Simplicity coming in the mail soon... | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| Based on his overreaction of throwing his head up and now hiding his face, I would bet more than likely his teeth are bothering him.
I would work on really using your seat for the whoa and being as light as possible on his mouth. He is anticipating the pain and protecting himself, so your job is to show him it’s not going to hurt. Stay consistent in your cues and if he is rooting on the bit, throw him his head when you ask him to stop and make your release timing perfect – don’t hang on the bit any second longer.
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | RockinGR - 2017-03-03 11:36 AM Southtxponygirl - 2017-03-03 11:31 AM What type of bit do you have on him now? I'm no expert but sometimes some bits will cause problems, I had one that would always root his nose pulling the reins out of my hands sometimes, I had to do some switching around with bits untill I found one that he dont do this mess anymore and getting his teeth done helped alot to because he had blind wolf teeth. A locked ring Carolina snaffle with a copper wrapped mouth with a lifesaver (that's a mouth-ful, LOL ). I have the same bit in just a twisted wire I could try, or a tender touch. I should have a dog-bone twisted wire Simplicity coming in the mail soon...
There could be a loose cap or a sharp point maybe wolf teeth problems maybe once all this is taking care of it will help with the problems you are having. I would be trying that dog bone that you are waiting for or a chain mouth.. Thats what made my horse happy was going to a chain mouth, it took a few ride for him to understand that this bit was not going to bother him befor he stoped all the rooting. I got his teeth done and use this chain mouth peice and all is good with him now adays, lol.. Took some time trying different bits but now we are both happy.  | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I'm training one now that wanted to bog his head in a stop when I got him. Anytime I touched his face, he would either shake his head or jerk it down. I ground drove him in the round pen initially, and some horses that will fix them, but he had to be ridden to get the lesson. I did lots and lots of pushing his butt into the bridle with a light, in and out pressure on one rein and a big release when he quit evading and gave. We started at a walk and built up. If he bogs his head in a stop, I kick the fire out of him and then bounce one rein and then the other until his head comes back up, then softly ask for the stop again and keep doing this until his does it right and throw him the reins and praise. It takes timing and feel to fix this right. You don't want a false frame where they're getting behind the bit and getting flat behind with no impulsion, but they feel soft and look like they're broke in the face. If you do it right, they learn that accepting the pressure comes with release and start seeking that.
I also use a flat leather curb on this horse. He is super sensitive and it doesn't take much. I have a sister to him that doesn't like chains either, but rides super in leather. | |
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Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | Three 4 Luck - 2017-03-03 11:50 AM
I'm training one now that wanted to bog his head in a stop when I got him. Anytime I touched his face, he would either shake his head or jerk it down. I ground drove him in the round pen initially, and some horses that will fix them, but he had to be ridden to get the lesson. I did lots and lots of pushing his butt into the bridle with a light, in and out pressure on one rein and a big release when he quit evading and gave. We started at a walk and built up. If he bogs his head in a stop, I kick the fire out of him and then bounce one rein and then the other until his head comes back up, then softly ask for the stop again and keep doing this until his does it right and throw him the reins and praise. It takes timing and feel to fix this right. You don't want a false frame where they're getting behind the bit and getting flat behind with no impulsion, but they feel soft and look like they're broke in the face. If you do it right, they learn that accepting the pressure comes with release and start seeking that.
I also use a flat leather curb on this horse. He is super sensitive and it doesn't take much. I have a sister to him that doesn't like chains either, but rides super in leather.
We've done a lot of the one-rein stuff that you described. That actually has helped A LOT with the throwing the nose up, and also with rooting while in motion. This horse was SO SO heavy on it's front end and had no "drive" or propulsion. I've got it now where she's not dragging herself through a turn or a circle on her front end, and now driving herself along with her back end. Still working on not hollowing out her back or pushing her ribs out...but mostly focusing on getting her to quit fussing at her face. Her body control is so much better as her face gets better, but there is still a lot to improve.
I ride a lot with my body, but I cannot give her her face yet. She just doesn't have the balance or control yet. She's got to give it to me before I will give it to her, if that makes sense. She is smart, and responds well to praise. We are definitely making progress. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | My horse "got it" at a walk and trot WAY before he got it at a lope. At a lope he wanted to hop up and down with no stride, shaking his head or coming back at me. What finally seemed to make his lightbulb come on was working the fence in the round pen where I could pressure him without him getting away, and loping circles on sloped ground. When we first started loping on the slope, he would throw me outside hard on the downhill part because he wasn't balancing himself. I can show him where to balance if he lets me, but I can't do it for him. He almost fell down a couple of times before he realized it was better if he listened and put his body parts where I wanted them. Now he's staying balanced between my legs and reins at whatever speed I ask for. He will still try to hop every once in a while, but I can push him forward right out of it now. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| Get his teeth done and try the Loomis Gag, fixed my gelding that had the problem you described. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Idaho | veintiocho - 2017-03-04 9:49 AM
Based on his overreaction of throwing his head up and now hiding his face, I would bet more than likely his teeth are bothering him.
I would work on really using your seat for the whoa and being as light as possible on his mouth. He is anticipating the pain and protecting himself, so your job is to show him it’s not going to hurt. Stay consistent in your cues and if he is rooting on the bit, throw him his head when you ask him to stop and make your release timing perfect – don’t hang on the bit any second longer.
I would go with this, it sounds like his teeth are bothering him. I don't know how long you have had him or where you got him from, but maybe he wasn't -aloud- to lift his head, but instead he did it because something was bothering him.. and maybe his previous owners weren't educated enough to correct it?
If you do have his teeth checked and his teeth are not the problem, then I would bit him up or put some draw reins on him and work him on the ground first to let HIM figure it out on his own. Teach him voice commands, get his feet moving, put his attention on YOU and use your body to move him, then when you start riding him use that same method. With draw reins you can't really ring on their mouth, it is basically a tool to help keep them collected and their head down, and you have to rely on your body and voice to do the communicating.
ETA: I used to have a horse that was super heavy on his forehand.. Draw reins helped A LOT with that too. My trainer at the time handed them to me and taught me how to use them, and in like 2-3 weeks, I was wondering where all of this power came from in his hindquarters, because he was using his backend and he was pushing off and driving, and he became very light on his forehand. HUGE difference.
Edited by DashNDustem 2017-03-03 3:45 PM
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