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Expert
Posts: 1695
   
Location: Willows, CA | Greatly limit grain in the diet. The process of digesting high starch inclusions in the diet generates a lot of internal body heat. This is a significant extra stress in extreme heat conditions. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | winwillows - 2017-07-13 10:56 AM
Greatly limit grain in the diet. The process of digesting high starch inclusions in the diet generates a lot of internal body heat. This is a significant extra stress in extreme heat conditions.
Since when? |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | Tdove - 2017-07-13 11:20 AM
winwillows - 2017-07-13 10:56 AM
Greatly limit grain in the diet. The process of digesting high starch inclusions in the diet generates a lot of internal body heat. This is a significant extra stress in extreme heat conditions.
Since when?
Since always.
Excess starch that passes through the small intestine undigested by enzymatic activity will create a higher degree of fermentation in the hind gut than normally occurs on horses that properly digest the dietary starch from more limited concentrates higher in the system. Here is the definition of fermentation.
"Fermentation (noun)
The chemical breakdown of a substance by bacteria, yeasts, or other microorganisms, typically involving effervescence and the giving off of heat. "
When large amounts of excess starches effect hind gut function by generating additional internal body heat, that heat involved becomes particularly important when combined with other stress factors generated by high environmental heat.
I wrote an article about this before the Atlanta Olympic Games because of the high heat and humidity in combination with high grain diets used on some eventing horses. Reducing excess internally generated body heat in this situation allows a horse to better manage extreme external heat exposure more efficiently.
(as an edit to this post) I am not saying that there can be no grain whatsoever involved in the diet. Just saying that more grain than can be broken down enzymatically in the small intestine can contribute to significantly higher internally generated body heat, and that this becomes a much bigger factor when external heat is extreme.
Edited by winwillows 2017-07-13 1:09 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | It is typically understood that grain has about half of the metabolic heating factor of forage, hence why hay is the best source of heat for horses in cold conditions. I have never seen any research to the above claim so I am not disputing it by any means. However, certainly to a point, adding grain and reducing hay in a very hot environment would have a cooling effect, when the starting point is no grain and all forage. I have looked for any article or research on whether, at some point, the reverse becomes true as grains are added, and have found none. I would find any research to this interesting. Either way, excess grain is still a negative idea, although it is debatable what level of grain, and which grain particularly, is considered excess and negative. A lot of differing opinions across the board there. |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | We get to disagree on this. I would never remove roughage, the natural source of equine nutrition, and replace any of that with grain to generate lower internally generated heat from digestion in hot weather. I always leave hay and pasture as the base of the diet. The level of fermentation of that is normal for the horse. My point was to eliminate additional heat from ADDITIONAL fermentation generated by more grain based starch than can be processed higher in the system. There can be a benefit to replacing grain with a higher fat source at levels that are broken down before the hind gut. There is some good research on this. If you replace roughage with high grain rations in extreme heat conditions, let me know how that works out for you. |
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 Peat and Repeat
Posts: 2773
Location: IN MY OWN LITTLE WORLD AT LEAST THEY KNOW ME HERE | Ponies being over weight in this heat is not good...
I have cut my pasture horses back to 1/2 scoop rolled oats evening only w
Pasture mineral and equipride supplement and a couple handfuls of soaked alfalfa cubes n 3 squirts of cocasoya oil.
I keep mineral salt blocks out also.
Water in troughs n barn and pond
Coastal Bermuda pasture.
Stall horses varies according to their needs.
Fed 2x day
They get rolled oats according to body weight.
Couple handfuls alfalfa cubes soaked
The mineral/equipride, cocasoya oil.
One mare doesn't like the oil and she gets 1 c rice bran
Stall horses get a lot of coastal grass hay 2x day.
Fresh water
Edited by Yakima 2017-07-14 9:14 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Bumping this post because I have a related question to the heat:
Back Story: The past week my gelding has been refusing to eat. He stands in the shade and sweats. Refuses to be stalled. Gets ancy and stressed when stalled and paces or weaves so he won't stand under his big stall fan he normally loves. I have him on Zesterra (Equisure) and have upped his dosage. He has been on Zesterra Maint. Dose since before summer started and I upped his doses when I knew it would be hot. I have Electrolyte paste (without sugars per label) and have been shooting salt water down him to get him to drink. He is steadily losing weight and will not eat his free choice hay or hay cubes. He is not on processed feeds and his feed schedule has not changed in over a year. (5am first feeding. 5PM second feeding. Turn out all day with free choice hay/low quality grass field stall access and chicken house fan mounted to roof of barn pointed at stall.)
Question: What else can I do to make him eat/comfortable/less stressed?
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-18 11:21 AM
Bumping this post because I have a related question to the heat:
Back Story: The past week my gelding has been refusing to eat. He stands in the shade and sweats. Refuses to be stalled. Gets ancy and stressed when stalled and paces or weaves so he won't stand under his big stall fan he normally loves. I have him on Zesterra (Equisure) and have upped his dosage. He has been on Zesterra Maint. Dose since before summer started and I upped his doses when I knew it would be hot. I have Electrolyte paste (without sugars per label) and have been shooting salt water down him to get him to drink. He is steadily losing weight and will not eat his free choice hay or hay cubes. He is not on processed feeds and his feed schedule has not changed in over a year. (5am first feeding. 5PM second feeding. Turn out all day with free choice hay/low quality grass field stall access and chicken house fan mounted to roof of barn pointed at stall.)
Question: What else can I do to make him eat/comfortable/less stressed?
My gelding was acting this way when we got our first 100 degree high humidity days. He walked away from his alfalfa cubes and wasn't interested in his hay. He was grumpy and his eyes told me he was miserable already. I have no electricity to his run in shed, so I can't put fans on him. He was drinking good, though. This horse has acted this way every summer from late July to early September for the last 4 or 5 years. This year it started in May. I contacted a lady who has whole food supplements. She felt like one of hers would help. It DID! Better yet, after feeding it for once a day for 2 weeks, I can now feed it every other day or so and it still works. He is eating good and he is NOT sweating profusely and he is happy again. I also started feeding in the evening at 7 because it is still in the high 90's at 5 in the evening. |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | We're at 105 heat index with killer humidity. Mine are in the barn under two fans each until around 6:00. Electrolytes to keep them drinking. |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | GLP - 2017-07-18 12:15 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-18 11:21 AM Bumping this post because I have a related question to the heat:
Back Story: The past week my gelding has been refusing to eat. He stands in the shade and sweats. Refuses to be stalled. Gets ancy and stressed when stalled and paces or weaves so he won't stand under his big stall fan he normally loves. I have him on Zesterra (Equisure) and have upped his dosage. He has been on Zesterra Maint. Dose since before summer started and I upped his doses when I knew it would be hot. I have Electrolyte paste (without sugars per label) and have been shooting salt water down him to get him to drink. He is steadily losing weight and will not eat his free choice hay or hay cubes. He is not on processed feeds and his feed schedule has not changed in over a year. (5am first feeding. 5PM second feeding. Turn out all day with free choice hay/low quality grass field stall access and chicken house fan mounted to roof of barn pointed at stall.)
Question: What else can I do to make him eat/comfortable/less stressed?
My gelding was acting this way when we got our first 100 degree high humidity days. He walked away from his alfalfa cubes and wasn't interested in his hay. He was grumpy and his eyes told me he was miserable already. I have no electricity to his run in shed, so I can't put fans on him. He was drinking good, though. This horse has acted this way every summer from late July to early September for the last 4 or 5 years. This year it started in May. I contacted a lady who has whole food supplements. She felt like one of hers would help. It DID! Better yet, after feeding it for once a day for 2 weeks, I can now feed it every other day or so and it still works. He is eating good and he is NOT sweating profusely and he is happy again. I also started feeding in the evening at 7 because it is still in the high 90's at 5 in the evening.
What supplement are you feeding? Info? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-18 12:48 PM
GLP - 2017-07-18 12:15 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-18 11:21 AM Bumping this post because I have a related question to the heat:
Back Story: The past week my gelding has been refusing to eat. He stands in the shade and sweats. Refuses to be stalled. Gets ancy and stressed when stalled and paces or weaves so he won't stand under his big stall fan he normally loves. I have him on Zesterra (Equisure) and have upped his dosage. He has been on Zesterra Maint. Dose since before summer started and I upped his doses when I knew it would be hot. I have Electrolyte paste (without sugars per label) and have been shooting salt water down him to get him to drink. He is steadily losing weight and will not eat his free choice hay or hay cubes. He is not on processed feeds and his feed schedule has not changed in over a year. (5am first feeding. 5PM second feeding. Turn out all day with free choice hay/low quality grass field stall access and chicken house fan mounted to roof of barn pointed at stall.)
Question: What else can I do to make him eat/comfortable/less stressed?
My gelding was acting this way when we got our first 100 degree high humidity days. He walked away from his alfalfa cubes and wasn't interested in his hay. He was grumpy and his eyes told me he was miserable already. I have no electricity to his run in shed, so I can't put fans on him. He was drinking good, though. This horse has acted this way every summer from late July to early September for the last 4 or 5 years. This year it started in May. I contacted a lady who has whole food supplements. She felt like one of hers would help. It DID! Better yet, after feeding it for once a day for 2 weeks, I can now feed it every other day or so and it still works. He is eating good and he is NOT sweating profusely and he is happy again. I also started feeding in the evening at 7 because it is still in the high 90's at 5 in the evening.
BioStar's Cool Star EQ. I am not 100% on the name part but the company is BioStar. I will warn you the shipping is ridiculous, but since it works for him and the black mare and I don't have to use it every day yet, I figure it is ok. I won't be feeding it once it gets cooler in November. |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| I finally got the fans and misters installed in their stalls, the difference those misters make is unbelievable. They no longer sweat while standing in their stalls and are way less grumpy. I bring them up around 10 am and they stay in their stalls till about 6 or 7pm. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| want2chase3 - 2017-07-18 2:15 PM
I finally got the fans and misters installed in their stalls, the difference those misters make is unbelievable. They no longer sweat while standing in their stalls and are way less grumpy. I bring them up around 10 am and they stay in their stalls till about 6 or 7pm.
Misters are awesome! If I had a barn with electricity, that would definitely be a must have! |
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| GLP - 2017-07-18 2:22 PM
want2chase3 - 2017-07-18 2:15 PM
I finally got the fans and misters installed in their stalls, the difference those misters make is unbelievable. They no longer sweat while standing in their stalls and are way less grumpy. I bring them up around 10 am and they stay in their stalls till about 6 or 7pm.
Misters are awesome! If I had a barn with electricity, that would definitely be a must have!
My barn doesn't have electricity yet lol! I ran two hoses from my house out there and we ran heavy duty extension cords for the fans... looks ridiculous but it works till he gets the electric ran out there... |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| want2chase3 - 2017-07-18 2:29 PM
GLP - 2017-07-18 2:22 PM
want2chase3 - 2017-07-18 2:15 PM
I finally got the fans and misters installed in their stalls, the difference those misters make is unbelievable. They no longer sweat while standing in their stalls and are way less grumpy. I bring them up around 10 am and they stay in their stalls till about 6 or 7pm.
Misters are awesome! If I had a barn with electricity, that would definitely be a must have!
My barn doesn't have electricity yet lol! I ran two hoses from my house out there and we ran heavy duty extension cords for the fans... looks ridiculous but it works till he gets the electric ran out there...
I wish I could convince my husband to let me do that. If I was at home everyday all day he would be ok with it, but not when we both work and it is so dry outside. |
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Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| GLP - 2017-07-18 2:34 PM
want2chase3 - 2017-07-18 2:29 PM
GLP - 2017-07-18 2:22 PM
want2chase3 - 2017-07-18 2:15 PM
I finally got the fans and misters installed in their stalls, the difference those misters make is unbelievable. They no longer sweat while standing in their stalls and are way less grumpy. I bring them up around 10 am and they stay in their stalls till about 6 or 7pm.
Misters are awesome! If I had a barn with electricity, that would definitely be a must have!
My barn doesn't have electricity yet lol! I ran two hoses from my house out there and we ran heavy duty extension cords for the fans... looks ridiculous but it works till he gets the electric ran out there...
I wish I could convince my husband to let me do that. If I was at home everyday all day he would be ok with it, but not when we both work and it is so dry outside.
I understand that! Im constantly checking on them throughout the day. I have to keep the old man in the stall that has the extension cords coming into the barn and where we connect the hose to the end of the mister, he's the only one that won't fart with anything hanging by his stall.. my horse would have been electrocuted and/or busted the water hose by now! |
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Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | GLP - 2017-07-18 1:27 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-18 12:48 PM GLP - 2017-07-18 12:15 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-18 11:21 AM Bumping this post because I have a related question to the heat:
Back Story: The past week my gelding has been refusing to eat. He stands in the shade and sweats. Refuses to be stalled. Gets ancy and stressed when stalled and paces or weaves so he won't stand under his big stall fan he normally loves. I have him on Zesterra (Equisure) and have upped his dosage. He has been on Zesterra Maint. Dose since before summer started and I upped his doses when I knew it would be hot. I have Electrolyte paste (without sugars per label) and have been shooting salt water down him to get him to drink. He is steadily losing weight and will not eat his free choice hay or hay cubes. He is not on processed feeds and his feed schedule has not changed in over a year. (5am first feeding. 5PM second feeding. Turn out all day with free choice hay/low quality grass field stall access and chicken house fan mounted to roof of barn pointed at stall.)
Question: What else can I do to make him eat/comfortable/less stressed?
My gelding was acting this way when we got our first 100 degree high humidity days. He walked away from his alfalfa cubes and wasn't interested in his hay. He was grumpy and his eyes told me he was miserable already. I have no electricity to his run in shed, so I can't put fans on him. He was drinking good, though. This horse has acted this way every summer from late July to early September for the last 4 or 5 years. This year it started in May. I contacted a lady who has whole food supplements. She felt like one of hers would help. It DID! Better yet, after feeding it for once a day for 2 weeks, I can now feed it every other day or so and it still works. He is eating good and he is NOT sweating profusely and he is happy again. I also started feeding in the evening at 7 because it is still in the high 90's at 5 in the evening. BioStar's Cool Star EQ. I am not 100% on the name part but the company is BioStar. I will warn you the shipping is ridiculous, but since it works for him and the black mare and I don't have to use it every day yet, I figure it is ok. I won't be feeding it once it gets cooler in November.  ETA: Found it. Thanks!
Edited by IRunOnFaith 2017-07-18 3:41 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-18 3:37 PM
GLP - 2017-07-18 1:27 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-18 12:48 PM GLP - 2017-07-18 12:15 PM IRunOnFaith - 2017-07-18 11:21 AM Bumping this post because I have a related question to the heat:
Back Story: The past week my gelding has been refusing to eat. He stands in the shade and sweats. Refuses to be stalled. Gets ancy and stressed when stalled and paces or weaves so he won't stand under his big stall fan he normally loves. I have him on Zesterra (Equisure) and have upped his dosage. He has been on Zesterra Maint. Dose since before summer started and I upped his doses when I knew it would be hot. I have Electrolyte paste (without sugars per label) and have been shooting salt water down him to get him to drink. He is steadily losing weight and will not eat his free choice hay or hay cubes. He is not on processed feeds and his feed schedule has not changed in over a year. (5am first feeding. 5PM second feeding. Turn out all day with free choice hay/low quality grass field stall access and chicken house fan mounted to roof of barn pointed at stall.)
Question: What else can I do to make him eat/comfortable/less stressed?
My gelding was acting this way when we got our first 100 degree high humidity days. He walked away from his alfalfa cubes and wasn't interested in his hay. He was grumpy and his eyes told me he was miserable already. I have no electricity to his run in shed, so I can't put fans on him. He was drinking good, though. This horse has acted this way every summer from late July to early September for the last 4 or 5 years. This year it started in May. I contacted a lady who has whole food supplements. She felt like one of hers would help. It DID! Better yet, after feeding it for once a day for 2 weeks, I can now feed it every other day or so and it still works. He is eating good and he is NOT sweating profusely and he is happy again. I also started feeding in the evening at 7 because it is still in the high 90's at 5 in the evening. BioStar's Cool Star EQ. I am not 100% on the name part but the company is BioStar. I will warn you the shipping is ridiculous, but since it works for him and the black mare and I don't have to use it every day yet, I figure it is ok. I won't be feeding it once it gets cooler in November.
I have not used this BioStar product, but they make well made products. I have done a little work with them in the past and like the people and products. |
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 The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | It's miserable..120 degree weather is the worse and now we have the Monsoon season which brings in the high humidity..ugh. I usually don't ride in the summer, it's just too hot. Our temperatures don't cool down at night either, it still stays way above 100. My horses are in their stalls during the day with fans and misters and turned out for a few hours at night to graze....hurry up fall!! |
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