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Expert
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| I have a problem lol....but really. I feel like I can get colts really body broke and loping perfect circles without much help from me and patterned/hunting correct body position at a slow lope. But then I get to thinking "okay!" we are good to go now! And try to add speed and everything falls apart. Had a super discouraging ride last night- mare was anticipating and dropping shoulders and getting stiff and not wanting to work. She's 6, I've had her 120 days, basically she had about 5 rides when I got her. She's had lameness eval and xrays and is seen by chiro regularly.
I realize every horse is different, and this one is feely and a little tough, but what are your realistic expectations for one at 120 days? And what is your typical timeline/goal for an older horse that knows the basics?
Edited by lopnaround 2017-07-20 3:10 PM
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
 
Location: Oklahoma | They have to learn how to hold position at speed. You can do all the work in the world at a slow pace, but never get anywhere. They have to learn on their own. Add speed, then back off, add speed then back off, rinse & repeat until your colt has learned how to handle themselves.
Mine never lope the barrels until we go somewhere, but they know how to make the moves at speed just from the way I work them. (I don't have a large enough arena to lope a pattern.) They know the pattern at a trot, then they know how to work the fence/roundpen at speed. Hopefully when we go to town 1+1=2, but sometimes it doesn't. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| clover girl - 2017-07-12 11:53 AM They have to learn how to hold position at speed. You can do all the work in the world at a slow pace, but never get anywhere. They have to learn on their own. Add speed, then back off, add speed then back off, rinse & repeat until your colt has learned how to handle themselves.
Mine never lope the barrels until we go somewhere, but they know how to make the moves at speed just from the way I work them. (I don't have a large enough arena to lope a pattern.) They know the pattern at a trot, then they know how to work the fence/roundpen at speed. Hopefully when we go to town 1+1=2, but sometimes it doesn't.
This just clicked with me! Thanks! I have a game plan for the week now! | |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | one of my young ones will occasionally drop her shoulder because shes anticipating the turn. I have to remind myself to drive her, then gather her at the barrel and have her hind end drive her around the turn. If I just high lope to the barrel and don't tell her anything, it makes her be the one to decide when to turn and that's when she gets droppy. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | Older horses are more difficult because they've been spoiled and have not had to do much for most of their life. Realistically at the point your at I would probably just expect her to lope a nice pattern. It takes a lot of riding to get one broke. The difficult thing with speed is them learning how to correctly place their body and remembering to do it fast! If you add speed and they fall apart, it's time to step back and do some more homework. Be persistent and patient. Practice perfect. They will speed up on their own when their ready. Don't get discouraged! Today go out there and do work on what she is already good at and have a good ride! | |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| TheDutchMan01 - 2017-07-12 1:28 PM
Older horses are more difficult because they've been spoiled and have not had to do much for most of their life. Realistically at the point your at I would probably just expect her to lope a nice pattern. It takes a lot of riding to get one broke. The difficult thing with speed is them learning how to correctly place their body and remembering to do it fast! If you add speed and they fall apart, it's time to step back and do some more homework. Be persistent and patient. Practice perfect. They will speed up on their own when their ready. Don't get discouraged! Today go out there and do work on what she is already good at and have a good ride!
Thank you! I needed to hear this! Appreciate it!! | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | Good advice here for sure. Bottom line is some it clicks with quickly, others not so much. I literally try and let the horse decide when they are ready to add speed. I'll encourage but at the same time not push them past their comfort level. I'm in your same boat right now with a late started 5 year old. He's getting there but it's just consistency, hauling, and practice. I know he has other gears, but until he's comfortable I just can't expect too much. They sure can try your patience sometimes but just hang in there, it will click with her in time. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 489
| Am I understanding that the mare has basically only 125 rides total? If so - that's only 4 months riding. How can one be broke enough to run a barrel race and have a solid enough foundation to keep problems from starting? Sitting on the fence it's easy to tell someone else what to do and I can't feel what your horse is doing so take my advice for the $.01 its probably worth.
If your horse is getting stiff, resistant, or anticipating a turn, and it's not hurting, there is a hole in the foundation and they are not confident that they can do what is being asked of them. Ed Wright used to say "Be horseman enough to know you are going to get the response you are asking for. Don't put them in a situation where they can't do something correctly. Set them up for success" Maybe your mare isn't really ready for speed? Or too much speed is being added too quickly? Ed used to say to add speed in increments. We've all see the runs where if someone has a problem on the first, that directly causes a problem on the 2nd, and usually that problem on the 2nd magnifies a problem on the 3rd. Maybe ask for speed in parts? Float to the first - ask to the second- then throttle back and float to the 3rd. next time ask to the 1st - float to the others. Add speed in increments that your horse can mentally and physically handle.
I'm not someone that thinks you have to take forever to make a good barrel horse, but you are on the horses timeline - not the horse on yours. I've rushed and had to fix problems like everyone else. A wise trainer once told me that you will spend the same amount of time on a horse on barrels wither you take your time at first - or you take the same amount of time (or more) fixing problems. Good luck and I hope you work through your issues. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| Thanks guys- yes she really only has about 120 rides. I obviously need to "check myself" and slow my roll!! Appreciate the advice!! I need to remember it's not like a reiner goes from learning to turnaround to ready to show the next week!! Need to "enjoy" the process and not rush it.
Edited by lopnaround 2017-07-13 9:31 AM
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Yep, I agree, and I'll add my two cents, for what it's worth.
When I'm ready to add speed on the pattern, I pull them off the pattern for a few days. I like putting mine on poles and teaching them something new. Poles are all about forward motion, and usually you can get ahold of them a little more in a pole pattern and handle them some without scaring them. I also do a full day of checking up on basics, if I find a hole then its a couple of days. Circles, nose in, nose out, collecting at the poll, hip in, hip out, leads, loping on a loose rein, light stopping, etc etc.
Usually it makes picking up speed a breeze.
I also make a point of only trotting and loping inside the arena for a few minutes at a time, then pulling them up and letting them breathe. They usually stay a lot fresher, and by waiting a minute or more, allows them to reset and get some oxygen back into their muscles. Sometimes you have to slow down to go faster, in more ways than one.
If I get one that is getting upset, angry, etc, and I don't think they need to go to the vet, I'll give them four or five days off, with turn out, to just be a horse. You get back on them and sometimes they feel like they trained themselves.
Also, this is pretty weird, but if I'm having one that's having trouble, I'll go through and readjust everything. Curb strap, headstall, breastcollar, cinch, saddle position, and most importantly, I'll readjust my stirrups, I usually end up shortening them. Then I'll go to a system check through all the gaits and try again. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| classicpotatochip - 2017-07-14 7:24 AM Yep, I agree, and I'll add my two cents, for what it's worth. When I'm ready to add speed on the pattern, I pull them off the pattern for a few days. I like putting mine on poles and teaching them something new. Poles are all about forward motion, and usually you can get ahold of them a little more in a pole pattern and handle them some without scaring them. I also do a full day of checking up on basics, if I find a hole then its a couple of days. Circles, nose in, nose out, collecting at the poll, hip in, hip out, leads, loping on a loose rein, light stopping, etc etc. Usually it makes picking up speed a breeze. I also make a point of only trotting and loping inside the arena for a few minutes at a time, then pulling them up and letting them breathe. They usually stay a lot fresher, and by waiting a minute or more, allows them to reset and get some oxygen back into their muscles. Sometimes you have to slow down to go faster, in more ways than one. If I get one that is getting upset, angry, etc, and I don't think they need to go to the vet, I'll give them four or five days off, with turn out, to just be a horse. You get back on them and sometimes they feel like they trained themselves. Also, this is pretty weird, but if I'm having one that's having trouble, I'll go through and readjust everything. Curb strap, headstall, breastcollar, cinch, saddle position, and most importantly, I'll readjust my stirrups, I usually end up shortening them. Then I'll go to a system check through all the gaits and try again. GOOD STUFF! Love the pole idea!! All really good "horseman" things to think about, thank you!
I did give her 2 days off and rode her last night, she was awesome. No pattern work, just basics. I realized that the loomis gag (wire headstall) I'd been riding her in had been too much and was making her front heavy- I switched and put a twisted wire snaffle on her with draw reins (to breastcollar rings) and worked on driving though and lifting shoulders, and hip to inside esp to left.
Was a great ride. Got a new direction, thanks for all the tips!!
Edited by lopnaround 2017-07-14 9:23 AM
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | You have to push a horse to where they will fall apart so then you know what to work on. No big deal, slow it back down and work on what you need to work on, and then try again later.
You'll never get anywhere if you keep it 100% perfect at all times. You do have to push them from time to time to find out where you are.
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| Here's a link to video from last night! Would love your advice/critique. I intentionally kept my pocket a lil wider going into first and wanted her to drive thru soft and engaged cuz she's been wanting to get stiff and cut the backside off. Not sure if that's the right way or not? Y'all have helped me a ton tho, thank you!
https://www.facebook.com/laurel.anthony.7/posts/10155452697597707 | |
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 The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | classicpotatochip - 2017-07-14 6:24 AM
Yep, I agree, and I'll add my two cents, for what it's worth.
When I'm ready to add speed on the pattern, I pull them off the pattern for a few days. I like putting mine on poles and teaching them something new. Poles are all about forward motion, and usually you can get ahold of them a little more in a pole pattern and handle them some without scaring them. I also do a full day of checking up on basics, if I find a hole then its a couple of days. Circles, nose in, nose out, collecting at the poll, hip in, hip out, leads, loping on a loose rein, light stopping, etc etc.
Usually it makes picking up speed a breeze.
I also make a point of only trotting and loping inside the arena for a few minutes at a time, then pulling them up and letting them breathe. They usually stay a lot fresher, and by waiting a minute or more, allows them to reset and get some oxygen back into their muscles. Sometimes you have to slow down to go faster, in more ways than one.
If I get one that is getting upset, angry, etc, and I don't think they need to go to the vet, I'll give them four or five days off, with turn out, to just be a horse. You get back on them and sometimes they feel like they trained themselves.
Also, this is pretty weird, but if I'm having one that's having trouble, I'll go through and readjust everything. Curb strap, headstall, breastcollar, cinch, saddle position, and most importantly, I'll readjust my stirrups, I usually end up shortening them. Then I'll go to a system check through all the gaits and try again.
I totally agree with you about readjusting things...I was having some issues with my mare, I changed bits, and shortened up my stirrups, wow, big improvements just from these little things. Sometimes you just have to take a step back and readjust! :) We are slowly adding speed to the pattern. I am letting her run at her own pace building her confidence and mine. I have to realize that there's no hurry...it will all come together!! | |
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The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | lopnaround - 2017-07-20 2:05 PM
Here's a link to video from last night! Would love your advice/critique. I intentionally kept my pocket a lil wider going into first and wanted her to drive thru soft and engaged cuz she's been wanting to get stiff and cut the backside off. Not sure if that's the right way or not? Y'all have helped me a ton tho, thank you!
https://www.facebook.com/laurel.anthony.7/posts/10155452697597707[/q...
Try using a little more inside leg going into your turn and lower/move your hands a little more to the inside of her neck-it looked like they were up high. Use your outside leg to guide her off of the turn. | |
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| Do you do any speed work off the pattern? I think it often gets overlooked to just ask for speed down the arena, collect, do a circle, go fast again, random two tracking and zig zags, etc., with some speed. All those things carry back to the pattern but it's easier to find holes in my opinion and it keeps them from getting frazzled on the pattern. Can you trot forward and do 90s around the arena in different directions one handed? It won't be pretty at first but just keep asking. You would be amazed how much that kind of stuff gets them tuned in and broke. | |
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  Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | LIVE2RUN - 2017-07-21 4:03 PM lopnaround - 2017-07-20 2:05 PM Here's a link to video from last night! Would love your advice/critique. I intentionally kept my pocket a lil wider going into first and wanted her to drive thru soft and engaged cuz she's been wanting to get stiff and cut the backside off. Not sure if that's the right way or not? Y'all have helped me a ton tho, thank you! https://www.facebook.com/laurel.anthony.7/posts/10155452697597707[/q... Try using a little more inside leg going into your turn and lower/move your hands a little more to the inside of her neck-it looked like they were up high. Use your outside leg to guide her off of the turn.
Don't forget that she's going to depend on you to tell her how to approach and turn. Ask for that soft bend with your inside leg, keep your hips driving her up into the turn and you may have a softer response! | |
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