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Expert
Posts: 1543
  
Location: MI | Hi everyone, it's been a while  ! I got a new gelding, 9yo, this fall. He's my first running bred. He's been patterned, but I'm taking him back to the basics before we go forward.
I'm trying to figure out what bit to do slow work with him in, and what one to use on the pattern. His previous owners said that he has a low palate, they were riding him in a short shank combo. The trainer he went to for patterning for 60 days last spring said that he felt that he needed a bit that controlled him without taking away his run, and that he was sensitive. The trainer liked a small square gag, or on the days he was being difficult, a gag combo with wire wrapped 3-piece mouth and a dog bone in center. I tried him out in the short shank combo, but have not tried the other two with him.
I've been riding him in Molly Powell's chain mouth "The Freshman" and doing a lot of slower work with him. He is sensitive to the rider's cues, but as he grows anxious, he tends to be stubborn/bull-nosed and bow out of circles with his shoulder. We are working on this and he is much better at the trot, which I expect will carry over to the canter soon. He is getting much better with relaxing and the chiro has helped a ton. But, I'm wondering if when we get back to running (after this deep freeze, lol), he might need a little more 'structure'. I'd rather put more basics on him before running then put him in a much stronger bit, but I also think that he may need a little more 'structure' when running than the chain mouth - even if it is just different support to help his shoulders? Is this way off base? Does anyone have any thoughts on what I might try? Thanks and Happy New Year!
 (Freshman.jpg)
 (Short Shank Combo.jpg)
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 Freshman.jpg (50KB - 316 downloads)
Short Shank Combo.jpg (58KB - 258 downloads)
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | since your going back to basics ,you can leave the pattern alone and work on the one rein stop. it will get his attention and teach him to give to you, that should take care of the bull nose thingy.once he is thinking about you you can work in a smooth snaffle and progress to combo for the barrels. | |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | With those bits, finding issues, you just have to keep getting more severe imo. For back to the basics, a ring snaffle. I always go smooth unless they just really need a twist. I often try a twist to get the results I need and when we are doing good again, it's back to a smooth. If you keep getting a bigger gag, and then a nose band, and then a twist mouthpiece, then a headsetter-pretty soon you have no where else to go. It's a horse that is not broke and soft. We've had them off the track and always go back to a ring snaffle. The same thing we start a fresh colt in, to learn the basics. You just don't get that same feel and control (willing control) with a shank or combo that you do with a ring snaffle. And if you don't have soft control in an easy bit, when the pressure is on, you'll be SOL later regardless of what bit.
Sounds like you need to get better control of his shoulders and maybe even rib cage if he is getting stubborn. It wouldn't matter what bit you had, but if he wants to bow out with his shoulder when anxious he's not broke enough for barrels. You are doing the right thing wanting to get those basics back before continueing on. I really can't say what is a good one to run in later. Once you have him broke, you could just as easily run him in a snaffle or a JR Cowhorse. If he gets too strong, you can try some of those you mentioned, but I would just do that when making actual runs.
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2018-01-04 3:36 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1543
Location: MI | Yes, he needs more basics before returning to running. We've worked and will continue to work on body control, but he's had a while to get those bad habits ingrained. I'm going to start him back with Connie Combs square, he responds very well to squares and outside rein, and was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts about if this bit or another bit would be a better aid. I think sometimes, and could be totally wrong, that many of his problems are because he was ridden in harsher bits for control and never taught the basics well. Now, I'm attempting to unravel that.
The Freshman bit I don't consider all that harsh - am I wrong? He works well in it now - except for the shoulder & some anxiety on the trail, but I think that's mostly behavior.
I understand the snaffle love, but I've never got along well with them myself past the basics (I know, I know). I wouldn't use a ring snaffle on him, would do a dog bone if anything, because of his low palate...Thanks for thinking it through with me though, I appreciate your thoughts :) | |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Ridenrun4745 - 2018-01-04 6:02 PM Yes, he needs more basics before returning to running. We've worked and will continue to work on body control, but he's had a while to get those bad habits ingrained. I'm going to start him back with Connie Combs square, he responds very well to squares and outside rein, and was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts about if this bit or another bit would be a better aid. I think sometimes, and could be totally wrong, that many of his problems are because he was ridden in harsher bits for control and never taught the basics well. Now, I'm attempting to unravel that. The Freshman bit I don't consider all that harsh - am I wrong? He works well in it now - except for the shoulder & some anxiety on the trail, but I think that's mostly behavior. I understand the snaffle love, but I've never got along well with them myself past the basics (I know, I know). I wouldn't use a ring snaffle on him, would do a dog bone if anything, because of his low palate...Thanks for thinking it through with me though, I appreciate your thoughts :)
This statement is exactly my point No the first bit isn't harsh, but sometimes cues are lost in translation with a chain. I have used one and was surprised how well my horse seemed to like it though, so if your and the horse like it, good deal. Really work on those shoulders. Get control of those and the ribs and when he is stubborn or stiffens on you, you can get him out of it. Side pass on a fence and then swing him around back towards the middle of the arena, turning on the hind end, making him step one front foot over the other. Most of my training tips are from starting colts and just a handful of my own barrel horses through the years. I've fixed a lot of horses, but never barrel horses since I have only ridden my own. | |
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 Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | wyoming barrel racer - 2018-01-04 3:27 PM With those bits, finding issues, you just have to keep getting more severe imo. For back to the basics, a ring snaffle. I always go smooth unless they just really need a twist. I often try a twist to get the results I need and when we are doing good again, it's back to a smooth. If you keep getting a bigger gag, and then a nose band, and then a twist mouthpiece, then a headsetter-pretty soon you have no where else to go. It's a horse that is not broke and soft. We've had them off the track and always go back to a ring snaffle. The same thing we start a fresh colt in, to learn the basics. You just don't get that same feel and control (willing control) with a shank or combo that you do with a ring snaffle. And if you don't have soft control in an easy bit, when the pressure is on, you'll be SOL later regardless of what bit.
Sounds like you need to get better control of his shoulders and maybe even rib cage if he is getting stubborn. It wouldn't matter what bit you had, but if he wants to bow out with his shoulder when anxious he's not broke enough for barrels. You are doing the right thing wanting to get those basics back before continueing on. I really can't say what is a good one to run in later. Once you have him broke, you could just as easily run him in a snaffle or a JR Cowhorse. If he gets too strong, you can try some of those you mentioned, but I would just do that when making actual runs.
Ditto on this... and those 2 bits are 2 totally different bits... I like to ride mine in orings as long as I can, some even to the arena. but those basic's getting installed take time and that is up to you and the horse... Over drilling one on the same things gets boring too, so remember that. I tend to work on something a few days then do something different. | |
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Ms Bling Bling Sleeze Kitty
Posts: 20917
Location: LouLouVille, OK | and I meant to ask, you say he can be anxious... what are you feeding him? Protein wise, sugar and starch wise?
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 The Bling Princess
Posts: 3411
Location: North Dakota | I personally love the Loomis. It's great at getting them to soften up and you can take a hold without freaking them out. It's important when going back to re-instill some basics to not get into them with both hands, which could be causing his anxiety. One hand or the other with the Loomis until he figures out to soften to it and your feet and then you can get into him with both.
With regards to the anxiety in my experience it's always been one of three things. Soreness, gastric ulcers, or they simply lack foundation & don't know what your asking and they get anxious. At age 9 he may have some hock soreness, stifle, guts...you never know; just starting ruling things out.
Edited by WYOTurn-n-Burn 2018-01-08 9:21 AM
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