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Expert
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I’m not good with bits. I have a gelding that is decently light mouthed but will at times get hard mouthed because he’s older and stuck in his ways. I’m having trouble getting him lined up properly for the first barrel. He takes off good but ends up way too straight. I lift with my inside rein and put pressure with my inside foot to try to move him over but he just flips his nose and keeps going. Makes for a wide first barrel. Someone said I needed to ride him with something that would get his face. Would this but work for that but not be too harsh at the same time since he is decently light mouthed? I’m currently riding him in a long shank Myler with copper rollers. Looks similar to a Mullen mouth but has a little more curve to it.
Also what are somethings I can do to work on the moving over? I don’t really have anywhere to set up a whole pattern. It’s jsut his first barrel. Other 2 are good. He’s stiff and just doesn’t listen. Been vetted and chiro. Had his teeth done last week. Just being stubborn.
Edited by TessBelle 2018-04-09 7:11 AM
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 Take a Picture
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| I suggest back to basics and get control |
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | Have you worked any on counter arcs or two tracking?
Edited by cecollins0811 2018-04-09 7:41 AM
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | cecollins0811 - 2018-04-09 7:35 AM
Have you worked any on counter arcs or two tracking?
He does counter arcs fine. Which doesn’t make sense. Just won’t do it in a run. Im not sure what a two track is.
Edited by TessBelle 2018-04-09 8:39 AM
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Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Wyoming | I would counter arc during exhibitions and when you get to your 'spot' and sit and stop at home. Hard to explain through words but I would be also pulling on the outside rein with the inside rein and foot to keep him balanced. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | If he flat out doesn’t listen, then it won’t matter if you change bits. Sure, he might listen for a couple runs but if nothing else changes, he’ll be back at it again.
Its up to you to MAKE him listen. If you have to do a counter arc at speed (if he truly listens well during slow work) then that’s what you have to do. Either way, it shouldn’t be an option for him to listen to you - he needs to do it. If you give him some inside leg, he needs to respect it.
Also, you mentioned he is an older horse. Any chance he is hitting somewhere, only on the direction of the first barrel turn, that is contributing to him stiffening up? |
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Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | TessBelle - 2018-04-09 6:57 AM
cecollins0811 - 2018-04-09 7:35 AM
Have you worked any on counter arcs or two tracking?
He does counter arcs fine. Which doesn’t make sense. Just won’t do it in a run. Im not sure what a two track is.
Two tracking, in the way that I'm a going to put it in your situation, is putting his hip closer to the barrel than his shoulders while you walk around the barrel. |
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 Porta Potty Pants
Posts: 2600
| Did you check saddle fit? I also agree with an earlier poster ... back to the very basics. Your bit may be contributing, does it have the flex you need?
Edited by azsun 2018-04-09 9:49 AM
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | I have never had a Myler bit fit my hands or riding. Not slamming them, they just don't work for me. I used a Hodges with chain mouth on our horse that wanted to approach like that.
When you are using inside hand, inside foot, although it "should" work to move them, sometimes they end up just leaning more on you. Instead, keep your horse right between your hands - even pressure until you reach the barrel.
When loping circles, move your horse out in the circle doing this. Also, when slow working, practice keeping your horse between your hands - no leaning. When you reach the "too straight" point, counter arc him to the outside - do this walking. |
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Expert
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | r_beau - 2018-04-09 8:54 AM
If he flat out doesn’t listen, then it won’t matter if you change bits. Sure, he might listen for a couple runs but if nothing else changes, he’ll be back at it again.
Its up to you to MAKE him listen. If you have to do a counter arc at speed (if he truly listens well during slow work) then that’s what you have to do. Either way, it shouldn’t be an option for him to listen to you - he needs to do it. If you give him some inside leg, he needs to respect it.
Also, you mentioned he is an older horse. Any chance he is hitting somewhere, only on the direction of the first barrel turn, that is contributing to him stiffening up?
I don’t think so. Just had him vetted because he was toting his tail to the right while riding. Did vet and then had to chiro check him twice. All they found was 2 huge beans. Said that could have been causing the tail toting. I had a dentist do his teeth Wednesday and all this happened in our run Friday. Could it be possible maybe his mouth was a little sore? I exhibited him because it had been 6 months since I’d even ran. He did it in the exhibition but I thought maybe I had a bad approach because the set up was different than one had ran before. So in his run I waiting until I got in the arena to get him set up and still didn’t help. |
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Expert
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | azsun - 2018-04-09 9:47 AM
Did you check saddle fit? I also agree with an earlier poster ... back to the very basics. Your bit may be contributing, does it have the flex you need?
Flex’s good. That’s why I’m frustrated. Everything slow work is fine. It’s jsut during runs. |
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Porta Potty Pants
Posts: 2600
| TessBelle - 2018-04-09 11:27 AM
azsun - 2018-04-09 9:47 AM
Did you check saddle fit? I also agree with an earlier poster ... back to the very basics. Your bit may be contributing, does it have the flex you need?
Flex’s good. That’s why I’m frustrated. Everything slow work is fine. It’s jsut during runs.
If it's fine at a slower pace, something is happening between your slower pace and faster one. I agree with an earlier poster of going back to basics at a slow speed to make him do things correctly and work your speed back in over time. If he was sore after the dentist, then he needs to learn it won't hurt. I also agree with another poster, I've had the same experience with the mylar bits. |
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 The best bad guy on the internet
Posts: 3519
Location: Arizona | How are you setting him up going to your first? Are you starting too close or too wide? Are you not getting him up far enough so he can make a nice turn? Any videos? Some horse just have different turning styles on different barrels. My mare does, she's stiffer to the first and bendy for the other two. Maybe quit trying to fight him and let him turn his way on that barrel?? |
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Expert
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | LIVE2RUN - 2018-04-09 4:30 PM
How are you setting him up going to your first? Are you starting too close or too wide? Are you not getting him up far enough so he can make a nice turn? Any videos? Some horse just have different turning styles on different barrels. My mare does, she's stiffer to the first and bendy for the other two. Maybe quit trying to fight him and let him turn his way on that barrel??
I have videos. Just don’t know how to post. I try to center him. But like the arena from Friday the alley wasn’t centered and the first barrel was 65fl down the arena. so I think that just made it worse. If it’s a blind first barrel I wait until we can both see it.
Edited by TessBelle 2018-04-09 5:39 PM
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Married to a Louie Lover
Posts: 3303
| The first barrel is always the hardest. I’m currently going back to slo work and redialing my eye.
Get out the cones. Figure out where you want your spot to be for the first barrel and ride to it. Anytime you get off course stop, back, roll away from the barrel and start over. If you just correct him and move on it doesn’t teach him to run to his spot - it just teaches him you’ll fix his mistakes.
Add leg add leg add leg. Hips swinging and moving out can lots of the time be due to not getting his front feet out of the way of his back feet - light a fire under those feet!!! Anytime you use your hand you should be using 2x’s the amount of leg IMO.
If the bit you’re using is what I’m thinking of, I would change it. It what I’m not quite sure - I’d probably start with something like a little dogbone jr cowhorse and go from there. Fewer breaks in a bit will stiffen one up. Plus I’d want to get his attention and focus on me to break him off his current habit.
Finally, keep your head up. I had an awful run Saturday night. Finally went back and rewatched some videos of clinician riding my horse and realized how lazy I’ve been with him in falling right back into bad habits. You’re not along in the struggle but that’s what makes us better! |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I been riding him this week working on flexing and counter arcs. I been riding him in a short shank million dollar bit. I think... think.... he’s getting softer. I chose this bit because it can be ridden lightly or I can really get a hold of him if need be. When I first started when I would pull him to flex he would pull away from me. So we’ve been working on that. I think this whole time all I’ve needed to do was slow down and start agin. |
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 Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | I would go back to basics. You say he moves off leg at slow work.he may move off leg,but if the response is not immediately and hasn't moved more than 6 inches to right/left then that is not enough response for faster speed. I would leave the barrels a lone and take out in a field some where and work on figure 8''s and flexing and moving off leg with a faster response..Use a tie down if you don't already, to keep him from flipping that nose. A short sliding gag may work for you. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | I personally feel like the million dollar bit a lot of bit. If he’s not listening to you there, you definitely need to go back to basics. Also, I feel like a combo bit has a lot going on and the signals can be confusing to a horse because there’s so much going on - at least when you are trying to go back to basics.
Keep things simple. Put the horse back into something simple and work on simple basics. |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| The more breaks in the bit the more bend, maybe try a couple of bits with a chain to get to give his rib cage. Riding with a mullen will make one straight no matter what you do. Get a lifter with a chain in the middle or chain will give yku the bend you want. |
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