I'm having an issue with one of my horses, looking for thoughts and ideas on what it might be. She is going on a roadtrip to a great clinic, but I'm kind of at a loss and would like some ideas from others on what it might be to bring up to him when we go. It's been going on for a little over 5 weeks now. I started legging her up beginning of February, just lunged her for the first month as she has loose/catching stifles and sat for 5 months and was stalled most of January due to the weather. So I brought her back slowly, worked on long trotting and did some ground poles, hand backing, etc to strengthen them. She does that lovely thing where one of the back legs drop out from under them, as a result I'm sure from her stifle issues. It's decreased from 20-30 times per workout to maybe 5 times now, and she drags her toes. I tested her for EPM last year because of the toes and some incoordination in the hind end, but after a lot of money we established she had the loose/catching stifles and chose not to do anything medical as she was still growing and we hoped she'd grow out of it. The coordination got better but the toe dragging has remained. She picks them up fine over poles and such though, not tripping over them. And for almost all of March she rode fine and then one day she got really stiff to the right, started chomping the bit when going that direction. She was fine at a walk/trot but a lope she tries to either dive right or if I make her hold herself up her head and nose root into the air and she does more of the up and down lope instead of the forward movement. But she rides perfect to the left, lopes with her head level, stays positined correctly and bends beautifully. She moves out in a lope just fine while lunged, but often doesn't keep the right lead behind.

I gave her a couple weeks off and its gotten worse. The chiro has been coming every 2 weeks to work on her, my chiro is a vet, the last 2 times she came she had nothing chirporactically wrong. I had her MagnaWaved and her dental work done last week. Last night I rode her and when I asked her to lope to the right she was 50% better and did well for a couple laps and then the head went up and she got angry. I turned and went left and she was perfect again. So I startet to trot to the right to see if she was still ok trotting that way and she stopped and started backing. And she backed in a circle to the right, which she has done before. Usually I pull one rein, disengage her and move her another direction. Last night I tried that on both sides and she just got light on the front and went up, just a few inches. If you make her keep backing, she's more than happy to. I got off to grab a crop to see if that would work and before I got back on I made her move forward, tapping her butt with it.  She loped 8 foot circles around me each way just fine, but again going to the right she kept the wrong lead in the back. Got back on and she wouldn't even take a step forward, we started backing. The crop on the butt just made her back faster. To the point where she backed in a 15-20 foot circle to the right for 17 minutes staright before she stopped. I finally got her to walk forward but any time I'd cluck or move my legs we hit back into reverse. So I made the call to drive 4 hours to the best facility around, and am just trying to find ideas on what might be going on to discuss with the vet. She doesn't palpate sore anyhwere, she shows no back pain. I have done 2 weeks of omeprazole so far with no luck, she eats alfalfa pellets soaked and a handful of grain, as well as 5-6 flakes of alfalfa daily. She hasn't gone anywhere since last fall. Same pad & saddle as last year, she was just fine last year. I tried 4 different bits and a hackamore with no difference, with and without a martingale.

Chiro's first instinct is to either blister her stifle or check for kissing spine. I considered testing her again for EPM. Is anyone leaning in one direction or have new ideas? My first thought was kissing spine, but with her being just fine one way and showing no sings of back pain other than at the lope, that makes me hesitant. She rode fine last night, long trotting both ways etc until it came time to lope. That makes me side more with stifle, as they have to bring that leg up under more at a lope than trot. And I assume the weight of a rider is just adding fuel to the fire, as like I said she lopes to the right willingly when I'm not on her back. She also has always veered right when backing since I've owned her, it's a struggle to get even 2 steps straight at the back even backing on the ground. I'm not sure what would make her do that, but I'm assuming there has to be a good amount of pain for her to rather back up for 17 minutes nonstop than go forward. 

I sent you a PM .. 

Diagram shows the ligaments referred to in the 

PM ... any or several of these could easily be your problem.

GOOD LUCK ...

Could you share with us all what you're thinking, Chasin Cans, so we can all learn?

I was thinking the same thing!

Tendon or ligament injury is what the pm was about 

There are many things that can cause catching stifles, including EPM. If she dives to the right while loping and doesn’t   Get that lead on a longe line that sounds like hock soreness. Hock soreness, in the lower joints will very rarely shoe up in a flexion. Sore hocks can also cause stifles to catch and toe dragging. 

I don’t consider the testing for EPM very accurate. A horse with a compromised immune system may not show a titer because he’s not able to respond to the challenge. I would rather treat to diagnose. Subtle changes in muscle symmetry in hips, gaskins, thighs, chest, shoulder and forehead are also strong indicators of EPM (sometimes they are very subtle). A vet that’s good at Proprioception tests can give you a good idea if they’ve got it.

catching stifles are usually a symptom of something else going on and will get worse with lack of exercise.

EPM usually shows up in the right stifle first. 

Kissing Spine would be don my list quite a ways.

IDK but if she’s 4 or under you need to rule out growth plate epiphysitis on the tibial crest. The growth plate is right below the stifle joint. If it’s still open at 3 or 4 it will have epiphysitis in it and will be painful. It will look like stifle soreness (and stifles will catch because of the soreness). It’s due to a trade mineral imabalnace and cam be corrected with a supplement in 30-90 days. I’ll attach a picture of an open growth plate. One lateral stifle xray will show what stage the growth plate is.

I'm not saying this is your problem as I have no idea what it could be. I just want to point out about the kissing spine deal. My horse was just diagnosed with kissing spine. First barrel has been a problem off and on for over a year but gotten really bad in the last 6 months. Vet kept saying hock/stifle/neck but new vet said back and we xrayed. Long story short right turns were horrible, stopping/coming up in the air and left turns were ok. 

She is 5, but could be a late maturer as she just lost her last baby tooth as a 5 year old. I've owned her for a hair under 2 years and she hasn't grown height wise or width wise at all since I bought her. She is super leggy, idk if that has anything to do with her issues or not. When I had issues last year it was with both directions, not just to the right. If that is related to this or not, I have no clue. But she has been worked this year 5 days a week and last year I rode her maybe 20 times total as life got in the way. When I bought her she had only 60 days on her and they were spread out throughout the course of a year. So this is her first experience of being consistently worked. I also realize it could be me, she's extremely hard to ride and I struggle a lot with balance on her. Her trot will bounce you 6" out of the saddlem it's like tring to ride a pogo stick. I know my back feels like its broken when I get off of her and it's possible she's feeling soreness from my inability to ride quietly up there. That's another thing I plan on discussing with the vet as well. And I will certainly bring up the EPM thing and see what he has to say about that. I did a thorough check of her physcially last night and didn't see any visible difference in an side or area on her body. She has been gaining muscle like crazy, bulking up really quickly. I haven't ever had one look as fit or "ripped" as her. 

She's been stalled due to the flooding rain we've had and I turned her loose in the indoor last night and she hot lapped around to the right on the correct lead, so whatever it is must not have been bothering her last night. Which surprised me that she even wanted to move after all that backing the night before. We did notice she had a hard knot on her right hip, about the width of a grapefruit that I can feel and just slightly see. It is also something I plan to bring to the vets attention. I'll attach a picture of it, I notice it in old pictures from a month ago but don't notice it in pictures that are older. This photo is from the week she started doing these things. It looks the same now, this picture just shows it the best with the light. I don't want to assume it is the culprit, but it is worth looking into I think. Everything that is suggested on here I will definitely discuss with him while I'm there. I have a video of what she does while riding to show him from when she firt started and I have video of what she did last year, as well as videos of her lunging over the past month in case he wants to view anything. I'm just trying to be asprepared as possible since it is nearly a 5 hour trip one way to go see him.

My gelding I had that had a sticky stifle would have issues picking up his right lead.

In what I read you said she had only had 60 days when you got her, but have been riding her consistantly this year. Was she soft to the bit and able to collect? This could be an issue with her putting her head in the air while loping? She is young and maybe there are holes in her training.

I don't have any suggestions with it could be, but if it is a stifle issue, turn out is better than being stalled.

She's pretty broke, she collects well and always has ridden very level headed. She knows all the leg cues & leads, I can make any transitions at any gaits. She stops well, I don't stop my horses hard but they know to stop when I ask. She's really just as broke, if not more broke, than any of my others. She has a tendency to get herself behind the vertical, especially with a martingale so I spend a lot of time letting her have her face and don't hardly ride with the martingale anymore. I did the other day because I thought she might respond to it and not brace her head up. She still does to the left, just not the right. And when I say head in the air I'm talking like head close to my face and the nose tipped as high as possible to the sky. And she jsut chomps the hell out of the bit, the moment you start going right even at a walk, so she's clearly agitated to go that way. She rode perfect for a month, 4-5 days a week, and then one day just started having issues and over the last 5 weeks they've consistently gotten worse. And she was fine last year for the msot part, didn't do anything near like this. The one time she didn't want to lope last year only lasted a couple days and she was fine and it wasn't but a fraction of this issue. I haven't done anything with her because she's been lame on that right leg a bit since she decided to back herself for 17 minutes nonstop. I've left her in her in her paddock to do what she wants for the last few days. She was sound yesterday, but I didn't do anything beyond check her over to evaluate her soundness on a flat surface. She lives outside 90% of the time, she's not stalled unless its dangerous weather outside. I like to think it's not a training hole because I have severe doubts that anything but pain is going to make one voluntaritly back themselves up like that. 17 minutes would have most horses unable to walk after that, plus all the backing she did before that moment in our ride. Added to the fact that during this time she wont let me do any stretches with that back right either, and she's always let me stretch it to the back and front before & now she wants no part of it. I'm hoping its just a matter of blistering that stifle and moving on and not something actually career threatening. 

Reading your response I would would say it isn't a training issue as well if she is that broke. My gelding responsed with no further issues with an once a month injection I gave in his buttocks, it is prescribed by the vet. I can't remember the name off hand, but still have a bottle at the barn and could look it you like? I tried so many different things by advice of my vet (shoeing, excersise, chiro) amongst others. All other options were discussed. I did some research and came across the injection (I believe it's a type of estrogen) that helps the ligaments in the stifle. 

My friends mare had her stifles cut and she had a horrible long recovery and still had issues. She started on the injection after me talking to her about it and her mare has been doing great for over a year.

I have a horse who had gotten a bit out of shape, and it seemed to affect his stifles the most. He just felt sticky/unstable behind, while trotting one leg would slide out from under him now and then, and his lope felt really out of balance, almost like a young horse trying to figure out how to carry a rider, and he could NOT collect-sounds a bit like what you're experiencing. After testing for EPM and taking imagery various other soft tissue possibilities, it seemed he was just taking longer to get conditioned, and his stifles were his weakest muscle group/last to get in shape. Part of this was also due to poorer forage sources causing a vitamin deficiency (I was boarding at the time). We used a hefty dose of Vitamin E, and my farrier put a slight wedge pad on the rears to take some stress off the stifle. I continued conditioning as usual, and he was back to normal within a month. Expensive to "diagnose", but ended up being an easy fix.

Fingers crossed it's something simple for yours as well! 

   I didnt read through all of the responses, so sorry if this has already been addressed. But this horse has all of the text book signs of a sticky/locking stifle. Has it been addressed by your veterinarian at all? I would absolutely consider blistering the stifle ligaments. Keeping these types of horses in shape is also of upmost importance, as if they arent in shape the muscles of the hindquarters are not as strong and they will want to lock/catch even more. Long trotting and hillwork are great to build up those muscles. Stalling is one of the worse things you can do for these if it is truly just a sticky/catching stifle.

We know she has a stifle issue, it wasn't an issue last year but like I said I didn't ride her consistenly last year. She was still lunged at least 3 days a week when I didn't ride her though. My vet didn't want to blister her or dive too deep into it because she was just 4 and a late maturer and he expected her to grow more, which she hasn't done like we thought. This past winter she spent a lot of time in the stall due to unsafe conditions outside, we had a lot of ice on the ground and then it was warm for awhile and just standing water. Then that stupid polar vortex hit and when it's below 30 I don't work them. But I did still trun he rout in the indoor for at least an hour a day because she physically and mentally doesn't do well stalled. She mostly lives outside now, they come in for storms and come in for the night when its super muddy just so they arent standing in the wet 24/7. 

I do the best I can with hill work, I just make a lot of passes up and down the ditches on the road, I trot ground poles, I've made her step over shavings bags since I don't have cavalettis, we do backing and transition changes to build it, and I'm a long trot fan so she does plenty of that. I've done all the text book stuff they suggest to do for horses with "weak" stifles. I just ordered Vitamin E for her to try, that was recommended to me as well for her as they have no grazing opportunity except for the 15-20 minutes I let them hand graze in the yard after they've cooled out. My chiro, who is a vet, suggested having her stifles blistered potentially. She thinks check that out first and questioned kissing spine simply because she seems to get worse with weight on her back, but felt it may be a long shot & just suggested i get Langer's opinion on it. For the most part I think we've pinpointed the stifle as the most likely cause, I'm just wanting extra ideas if anyone had any other than the stifle or kissing spine. And I feel like I've mostly gotten validaton for the stifle issue, so that will be the first thing I discuss when I go.

Of course I rode her 2 days ago and she was 75% better and actually loped to the right moving forward and held her head at midlevel, so I went a couple laps aroun and let her quit on that. There was no backing, no hind end dropping out, she was fine. I lunged her first because she was super fresh and she even loped with the correct right lead in the back. I'm hauling her to a barrel race with me this weekend, just to go and ride around. We'll see how she does, but I'm going to try to keep her going somewhat until the appointment on the 28th and see what she does. And partly because I can't let her sit or her stifles will go south again & it's taken 3 months to get them as strong as they are now from what I started with. 

    I would just have the stifle ligaments blistered and be done with it.... To me, the horses age doesn’t really matter to me all that much with this procedure. You aren’t going directly in the joint, and if they need it they need it. I’m a vet, on these I usually tell people to try maximiing turnout, and strengthening hindquarters. If that doesn’t get us where we want to be then blistering is the next step. Some even require a surgical procedure of splitting the ligament- I’ve even had to cut some before. 

      Ultimately whatever procedure you do, the aim is at stiffening/scarring that ligament so it won’t pop out of place, because that is essentially what is happening when they are catching. 

It sounds more and more like he probably had open growth plates that caused the sorensss and catching. She grew out of it during the winter. 

I hope she continues to stay better :-)