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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
 
| Like the theraplate they are the latest gimmick IMO. Can some horses benefit from a nebulizer, yes but I think it needs to be done under supervision of veg, in sterile conditions. Any Joe blow can buy and administer in God only knows what kind of non sterile place without knowledge. There is no way to sterilize between uses by "spraying and wiping off." What about the bacteria on the human hands handling the equipment. They aren't running to the bathroom and scrubbing up between sessions or wearing gloves. It'd be like me running my fingers up and down a needle before sticking it in the vein. | |
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Miss Southern Sunshine
Posts: 7427
  
Location: South Central Florida | arion - 2015-09-03 4:14 PM
Swannranch - 2015-09-01 12:15 PM
I posted this before, I have now had 3 friends with horses that used the nebulizer treatments, come up with major lung infections. One owned the machine herself, one paid for a treatment and the other I can't remember right now. The one that owned her own machine believed she was very VERY careful about cleaning. Her horse was in intensive care with a vet for over 3 weeks. Several times they didn't think he was going to make it.
All three had very otherwise healthy horses. The vets all 3 (all different vets in different areas of Florida) said very likely got from machine. They are not easy to clean and a miscroscopic amount pumped directly into the lungs via this type system can cause major problems.
I also have a friend that has COPD and has had lung problems all her life. She nebulizes daily, but she replaces the tubing constantly.
I can't imagine ever using one that has been used on other horses, and at this point can't really imagine even using one of my own with out replacing everything for every use. I can't imagine that being very cost effective.
This is unpossible.
Colloidal Silver is an fungal, anti bacterial and with the exception of Angel tears the purest thing on earth.
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I think nebulizers can be very useful in horses with things like heaves or reactive airway disease. I think just nebulized humidified air alone can probably be helpful in clearing secretions. The nebulizers can be used to deliver medications for reactive airway disease, such as albuterol or ipratropium. Steroids can be nebulized as well, and there are advantages to nebulized steroids versus IV or oral steroids. The main reason is you minimize the undesirable effects of systemic administration.
I'm very skeptical of the real benefit of colloidal silver, simply because it's not a proven therapy in studies. My understanding is the solution is quite dilute, so it probably doesn't do any harm. The question is does it actually have any demonstrable benefit? It might just be a hook to sell the nebulizer.
I'd like to see a double blind study comparing colloidal silver in saline, versus saline alone. It would be very easy to carry out.
As for the infection risks, judging from what I've observed with people injecting horses, many people are either just sloppy or they don't have a clue. People don't bother with alcohol, or hibiclens at the injection site. They inject different horses with the same needles, use poor aseptic technique......and then they blame the subsequent abscess on the drug or vaccine. You can use some basic precautions and safely use nebulizers. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| Bear - 2015-09-03 11:00 PM
I think nebulizers can be very useful in horses with things like heaves or reactive airway disease. I think just nebulized humidified air alone can probably be helpful in clearing secretions. The nebulizers can be used to deliver medications for reactive airway disease, such as albuterol or ipratropium. Steroids can be nebulized as well, and there are advantages to nebulized steroids versus IV or oral steroids. The main reason is you minimize the undesirable effects of systemic administration.
I'm very skeptical of the real benefit of colloidal silver, simply because it's not a proven therapy in studies. My understanding is the solution is quite dilute, so it probably doesn't do any harm. The question is does it actually have any demonstrable benefit? It might just be a hook to sell the nebulizer.
I'd like to see a double blind study comparing colloidal silver in saline, versus saline alone. It would be very easy to carry out.
As for the infection risks, judging from what I've observed with people injecting horses, many people are either just sloppy or they don't have a clue. People don't bother with alcohol, or hibiclens at the injection site. They inject different horses with the same needles, use poor aseptic technique......and then they blame the subsequent abscess on the drug or vaccine. You can use some basic precautions and safely use nebulizers.
Thank you!!! I would love to see a study done as well, I have used the Equi-Resp before and absolutely loved the results I saw, I am going to be buying a Silver Horse Care Breathing Machine (cheaper one) because I have a horse with not only heaves but extremely (like, extremely extremely) bad allergies in the summer and I want to do everything I can for her. It will only be used on my horses and because I am so nit-picky it will definitely be cleaned well. Nebulizers have been around forever, they're just being used for the general public more which is why I think they are gaining popularity. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Bear - 2015-09-03 11:00 PM I think nebulizers can be very useful in horses with things like heaves or reactive airway disease. I think just nebulized humidified air alone can probably be helpful in clearing secretions. The nebulizers can be used to deliver medications for reactive airway disease, such as albuterol or ipratropium. Steroids can be nebulized as well, and there are advantages to nebulized steroids versus IV or oral steroids. The main reason is you minimize the undesirable effects of systemic administration. I'm very skeptical of the real benefit of colloidal silver, simply because it's not a proven therapy in studies. My understanding is the solution is quite dilute, so it probably doesn't do any harm. The question is does it actually have any demonstrable benefit? It might just be a hook to sell the nebulizer. I'd like to see a double blind study comparing colloidal silver in saline, versus saline alone. It would be very easy to carry out. As for the infection risks, judging from what I've observed with people injecting horses, many people are either just sloppy or they don't have a clue. People don't bother with alcohol, or hibiclens at the injection site. They inject different horses with the same needles, use poor aseptic technique......and then they blame the subsequent abscess on the drug or vaccine. You can use some basic precautions and safely use nebulizers.
Agree
Do human nubulizers have filtration systems? I would think they would want something like that to make sure there was no contamination in the hosing and machine itself. | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 274
| Has anyone done the research on chelated silver effects on the body?????
Or did most just jump on the fan band wagon?
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | barrelracr131 - 2015-09-04 9:35 AM Bear - 2015-09-03 11:00 PM I think nebulizers can be very useful in horses with things like heaves or reactive airway disease. I think just nebulized humidified air alone can probably be helpful in clearing secretions. The nebulizers can be used to deliver medications for reactive airway disease, such as albuterol or ipratropium. Steroids can be nebulized as well, and there are advantages to nebulized steroids versus IV or oral steroids. The main reason is you minimize the undesirable effects of systemic administration. I'm very skeptical of the real benefit of colloidal silver, simply because it's not a proven therapy in studies. My understanding is the solution is quite dilute, so it probably doesn't do any harm. The question is does it actually have any demonstrable benefit? It might just be a hook to sell the nebulizer. I'd like to see a double blind study comparing colloidal silver in saline, versus saline alone. It would be very easy to carry out. As for the infection risks, judging from what I've observed with people injecting horses, many people are either just sloppy or they don't have a clue. People don't bother with alcohol, or hibiclens at the injection site. They inject different horses with the same needles, use poor aseptic technique......and then they blame the subsequent abscess on the drug or vaccine. You can use some basic precautions and safely use nebulizers. Agree
Do human nubulizers have filtration systems? I would think they would want something like that to make sure there was no contamination in the hosing and machine itself.
Yes, they do have filters. However, they are not shared from person to person. The company I work for manufacturers human respiratory equip. There's a reason why everything we sell has to go through a licensed distributor and is only sold to patients with a doctor's script. Part of it obviously FDA and licensing, the other part is that it's just not something the average Joe should be choosing to do.
As for the colloidal silver, I don't follow that either as it seems to be an unsubstantiated claim. Straight saline makes sense and/or steroid mixtures.
Under the recommendation of a vet, I would use one. But I would never use a treatment at a show that is treating other horses due to cross contamination potentials. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2015-09-04 8:48 AM barrelracr131 - 2015-09-04 9:35 AM Bear - 2015-09-03 11:00 PM I think nebulizers can be very useful in horses with things like heaves or reactive airway disease. I think just nebulized humidified air alone can probably be helpful in clearing secretions. The nebulizers can be used to deliver medications for reactive airway disease, such as albuterol or ipratropium. Steroids can be nebulized as well, and there are advantages to nebulized steroids versus IV or oral steroids. The main reason is you minimize the undesirable effects of systemic administration. I'm very skeptical of the real benefit of colloidal silver, simply because it's not a proven therapy in studies. My understanding is the solution is quite dilute, so it probably doesn't do any harm. The question is does it actually have any demonstrable benefit? It might just be a hook to sell the nebulizer. I'd like to see a double blind study comparing colloidal silver in saline, versus saline alone. It would be very easy to carry out. As for the infection risks, judging from what I've observed with people injecting horses, many people are either just sloppy or they don't have a clue. People don't bother with alcohol, or hibiclens at the injection site. They inject different horses with the same needles, use poor aseptic technique......and then they blame the subsequent abscess on the drug or vaccine. You can use some basic precautions and safely use nebulizers. Agree
Do human nubulizers have filtration systems? I would think they would want something like that to make sure there was no contamination in the hosing and machine itself.
As for the colloidal silver, I don't follow that either as it seems to be an unsubstantiated claim. Straight saline makes sense and/or steroid mixtures.
Under the recommendation of a vet, I would use one. But I would never use a treatment at a show that is treating other horses due to cross contamination potentials.
I agree
The unit referenced in this thread does not have a microbial filter and the unit itself is a garden variety air compressor. I can see the merit of using a similar, sanitary machine to give steriod or even humidity treatments, but silver?
However, that's not even my main concern. If you want to use alternative therapies, I don't care... I just see these "treatments" at a show as a potential hot spot to spread equine disease at an event even further than horse to horse contact via normal routes of infection.
Ex. horse A is sick. He is stabled in barn A. He is treated.
Horse B follows horse A paying for a treatment. He catches the disease from horse A. He then spreads the disease to all of his surrounding neighbors in barn B, that otherwise would not have come into close contact with the sick horse.... and so on. | |
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 Member
Posts: 5
| I understand where you are coming from when talking about the profit margin.
You should check into Silver Horse Care. Serves the same purpose, which is giving a breathing treatment. However, the silver used is different. It is Colloidal Silver.
But perhaps the greatest significance about this company is it was created with the customer in mind, meaning the entire kit is $450. Which includes many more products, such as 2 bottles of the silver, 4 medicine cups and tubing, a disinfectant, a topical foam called SilverSoft, of course the air compressor, and the mask, a nasal spray bottle, and a human mask to treat yourself.
www.SilverHorseCare.com
Just some food for thought and something to look in to  | |
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Member
Posts: 5
| Silver has been around and used for many, many years.
I've attached a file about Colloidal Silver, which is the type that is used with the Silver Horse Care Respiratory Kit.
Attachments
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 Colloidal Silver Info Sheet FINAL 07.15.15.docx (32KB - 205 downloads)
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | glad I haven't jumped on the bandwagon lol | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | a differing opinion
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/expert-answers/colloidal-silver/faq-20058061 | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | The nebulizers we use in hospitals don't have filters, because everything is disposable. Like someone suggested, home nebulizers have filters, I think.
The disposable nebulizers here basically consist of a reservoir and tubing, and the cost to the hospital is 58 CENTS. Hospitals use the existing oxygen delivery systems, so no air compressor is needed. If you buy a home nebulizer at a drug store, it costs about $50-60, or less, and that includes the little air compressor itself.
I would be concerned about buying a nebulizer treatment at a show, for the reasons Alison stated.
I'm pretty sure a person can put together a nebulizer for horses for pocket change, compared to these contraptions, but I haven't seriously considered it. It's not rocket science. The idea is to aerosolize saline/medication by blowing air through it, basically creating a mist. You ought to be able to fashion a mask to place over the horse's muzzle with a plastic gallon milk carton. In fact that's what some people do.
Albuterol itself isn't very expensive.
Again, my question with regard to the colloidal silver is, how do we know it is no more effective than just nebulizing saline alone? Can anyone answer that? | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas |
This is a very good, well written, easily understood explanation of the silver quackery.
Take anything exotic sounding, and insert baseless "facts" purporting to support how it "boosts" the immune system.....people go batsh!t crazy and line up to buy it from the quack. Nowhere is this more prevalent than amongst horse people. It can be very tempting to succumb to the temptations. Quacks are artful salesmen and mythologists. | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Bear - 2015-09-04 10:54 AM The nebulizers we use in hospitals don't have filters, because everything is disposable. Like someone suggested, home nebulizers have filters, I think. The disposable nebulizers here basically consist of a reservoir and tubing, and the cost to the hospital is 58 CENTS. Hospitals use the existing oxygen delivery systems, so no air compressor is needed. If you buy a home nebulizer at a drug store, it costs about $50-60, or less, and that includes the little air compressor itself. I would be concerned about buying a nebulizer treatment at a show, for the reasons Alison stated. I'm pretty sure a person can put together a nebulizer for horses for pocket change, compared to these contraptions, but I haven't seriously considered it. It's not rocket science. The idea is to aerosolize saline/medication by blowing air through it, basically creating a mist. You ought to be able to fashion a mask to place over the horse's muzzle with a plastic gallon milk carton. In fact that's what some people do. Albuterol itself isn't very expensive. Again, my question with regard to the colloidal silver is, how do we know it is no more effective than just nebulizing saline alone? Can anyone answer that? One of my concerns with this product is that it is not a closed air compressor... it is a hardware style air compressor that likely is manufactured without the intention to be used on live animals. Most air compressors are used as a tool for painting, power washing, etc.
This appears to be the exact unit in the Equi-Resp pro kit: http://www.chicagoairbrushsupply.com/sptcaico1.html
How could one ensure they were not blowing barn dust or contagions into the mask? It seems to be open to the air. Dust or bacteria could settle inside this machine and grow if it were say, sitting in a barn. I also don't see a good way to be able to disinfect this machine.
This is the picture of the Equi-Resp "Pro kit"
Hopefully the pictures help to explain my concerns. ETA- that this is not a "closed" system.
Edited by barrelracr131 2015-09-04 11:21 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Bear - 2015-09-04 11:06 AM This is a very good, well written, easily understood explanation of the silver quackery. Take anything exotic sounding, and insert baseless "facts" purporting to support how it "boosts" the immune system.....people go batsh!t crazy and line up to buy it from the quack. Nowhere is this more prevalent than amongst horse people. It can be very tempting to succumb to the temptations. Quacks are artful salesmen and mythologists.
Here is an example of the "skin-darkening" which excess silver can cause.  | |
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Member
Posts: 15
| First off, this guy drank large amounts of Ionic Silver over the course of several years. This has nothing to do with nebulizing Colloidal Silver. Two entirely different things.
Here are a couple articles that may clarify any questions you have.
http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Silver_as_an_Antimicrobial_...
http://www.silverhealthinstitute.com/dr-gordon-pedersen-new-alkalin... | |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | | |
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Member
Posts: 15
| I understand. There is always going to be an extreme case to reference to support a point. If you research this guy, he is exactly that, an Extreme Case...
With nearly every venue of horse racing/showing limiting the drugs you're permitted to treat with, Nebulizing with Colloidal Silver has proven to me, to be a safe and effective alternative. It's not a "Cure All" and doesn't claim to be, but has certainly proven to be effective in promoting lung health, even when antibiotics have failed.
I use the Silver Horse Care and have had great results. I did however, purchase extra masks for the sake of treating several horses. I'm not saying this is the answer to every respiratory condition, but it certainly merits consideration. | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25352
Location: Bastrop, Texas | | |
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